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Old 30 Apr 2012, 02:04 (Ref:3067226)   #51
NZSTfan
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Originally Posted by flyingduck View Post
Can any one explain to me why Booth and Heimgartner stopped to change tyres, I thought that a pace car was brought out if it was deemed a dry race to allow all cars to change. Mr Booth lost 2 laps that he would not get back if a safety car was out. Have the rules changed or does the booth team not know them?

It was a punt that AV8 made based off the drying conditions. If the race marshall/steward (or whatever their called these days) called the race as 'dry' then the safety car would have come out to allow everyone in to pits to change to slicks. In this case the race was considered 'wet' for the whole thing (although clearly within a few laps it had a drying line). So seeing as Boothy and Andre were down the back anyway they just wanted to try a different strategy to see if they could come up thru the field (you'll notice they pitted about half way thru the race). The idea being that the slicks are up to 5 secs/lap quicker, so if you have enough laps to go then it is possible that you could get a jump start on everyone else and maybe make up some points. But that didn't happen, mainly because the Hankook wet tyre did very well, which is quite unlike wet tyres driven in dry conditions.

But man there was some good racing there this weekend. Whoever has said that the ST's are boring and a simply a 'train' of cars needs their eyes testing. Those races were as good as anything we've seen in NZ in my opinion. I felt for Colin Corkery - that was a big hit and by all accounts he is bruised but ok - which is great . I couldn't help noticing though how well that car stood up to the rear impact of those tyre bundles. The flimsy exterior just folded (as would be expected) but the cage seemed to handle it very well. But even more important than that was the fact that the fuel cell stayed intact and no fuel was lost to the open air, which of course could have ignited. Testament to the build quality of these cars, and why i have concerns about the safety of the going-nowhere NZV8 Next Gen car - i'm not sure how the matchbox chassis would stand up to an impact like that - not having a poke, just being realistic.

Hats off to International MSport - owning it at the moment
Hats off to M3 as well, Murph, well we always expect a lot from him, but to have Paul Manuell and Richard Moore find their feet was great to see, and showed the depth in the field.
Hats off to JMR again - consistent(ish) except for R2, but it was great to see Steve Richards show his true form
Hats off to Andy Knight - you impressed everyone i think in R2
Gutted to hear about the 2 supercheap cars, certainly two of my fave cars to look at (because they remind me of Rustys car last year). But i think we can deduce that the problem is theirs and not the series, which is a relief.

The crowd numbers looked poor, which is a shame, but as already mentioned on here, maybe the rain kept them at home. Which brings me on to my weather prediction.....i was WAAAAY off with this one i'll try harder next time.

And whats this 'scandal' with this MRX fella taking measurements from one of the SuperTourers?? why would they want to do that?? Are they not supposed to be based off the same design template?? afterall, isn't this what this court case is about?

Anyway sounds dodgy to say the least.
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Old 30 Apr 2012, 02:09 (Ref:3067227)   #52
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Originally Posted by Club racer View Post
Plenty of misinformation here. As usual.

You lot ought to be banned for lying on forums - are you motorsport fans or not? I was there all weekend and sure, Saturday was a washout, but talking to the circuit operatiors, the old school photographers and a few others, they said it was the best crowd there for years. I was at the last Tier 1 meeting there and you are having a laugh if you think that crowd was bigger than last Sunday, or your are blind.

Granted it is not easy to get support classes motivated for the winter months - perhaps you should put your money where your (big) mouth is and try yourself. Talking to one of the Honda guys on Saturday (a VERY experienced Tier 1 production racer who was having an absolute ball), he was telling me the Honda guys had told him they had put in some 2000 hours collectively organising their events this year on top of their regular jobs. And he thought they had done a far better job with that class than anything he had seen in Tier 1. Perhaps if the TMC stooges had spent that much time working for the sport instead of creating pointless and dodgy coffee carts or breaking into sheds to measure SuperTourers, motorsport in this country might be in a slightly better shape.

One-off classes for one off winter events are always going to be tough - and it showed, they were poor - but give these guys a chance. This is their first year, sixteen cars, eight more to come, more big name drivers and all you lot seem to do is focus on the negative.

Any new class getting up and running so quickly with brand new machines will have teething troubles - you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think this is unusual. Go and do some reasearch on some of the problems NASCAR had with their CoTs, or DTM, or the BTCC.

I saw Tim Edgell, Angus Fogg and Jack Perkins kicking around, and Edgell and Perkins both tested the prototype, along with Andrew Anderson. Why have I not seen the new NZV8 car out testing with drivers of this calibre? It's a nice looking car, surely 'all' those who have bought one would have been out testing the prototype?

I'm American and this must be a Kiwi thing, to bag something as much as you possibly can and lie about it on a public forum.

Fortunately - for every one iof the idiots on here, there must be 100 or more who are thrilled to see a new series like the SuperTourers - after all said and done a small crowd is better than no crowd, which is where top line motorsport in this country had got to.
Welcome Club_racer, agree with you on all counts there.

And, welcome to the SuperTourers fan club.....that must be 5 or so of us now but beware there is always some negative idiot out there who has to chuck a spanner in. Ya get used to it eventually
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Old 30 Apr 2012, 03:27 (Ref:3067235)   #53
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Caught the races on Speed last night, got to see some good racing so looking forward to the next event..
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Old 30 Apr 2012, 09:51 (Ref:3067343)   #54
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Originally Posted by on_to_it View Post
13.8 During Practice, Qualifying and any Race, wet weather tyres must be used after the Track has been declared wet by the Race Director directing that the Wet Weather Board be displayed at the Line. Wet weather tyres must continue to be used and dry weather tyres may not be fitted until the Dry Track Board has been displayed at the Line.

Did the Dry Track Board come out or has the rule changed?

I can't imagine AV8 don't know the rules.

Dont think you are interpreting it correct.

You are not allowed to run slicks on a track that is currently declared wet.
A race will only be declared wet before the start of the race, not mid way through,
but they can un-declare it wet and give you the option of which tyres to run at any point.
At no point can they ban you from running the wet tyre,
It relies on the theroy that the wet tyre will be slower lap times and wear to quick on a dry track to make people want to run it in the dry.
Have never heard of the safety car being used to allow everyone to come in and change tyres,
only ever seen it put out when they deemed the track too unsafe for even wet tyres.

And that goes for all motorsport not just V8ST.
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Old 30 Apr 2012, 10:41 (Ref:3067363)   #55
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I think you quoted my post by mistake. I didn't interpret anything, I just posted V8ST Rule 13.8
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Old 30 Apr 2012, 22:18 (Ref:3067674)   #56
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ive been going to manfeild since day1 in 73 including cars and bikes and stand by what i said..........wasnt bagging super tourers,thought they were great,just that was an average crowd for what is tauted everywhere and the next great thing
was there anyone at the gate on Sunday checking or selling tickets?
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Old 30 Apr 2012, 23:50 (Ref:3067692)   #57
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was there anyone at the gate on Sunday checking or selling tickets?
Yep
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Old 1 May 2012, 09:28 (Ref:3067782)   #58
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Where is everyone getting this the safety car will come out to fit slicks on a drying track? The track was drying but not enough and the wets although destroyed stood up to the task.

The race was called dry.

Last edited by Blackpearl; 1 May 2012 at 09:52.
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Old 1 May 2012, 10:38 (Ref:3067811)   #59
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Where is everyone getting this the safety car will come out to fit slicks on a drying track? The track was drying but not enough and the wets although destroyed stood up to the task.

The race was called dry.
Nor everyone, just flyingduck. I think you'll find at the start, the race was deemed wet.
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Old 1 May 2012, 11:19 (Ref:3067820)   #60
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Nor everyone, just flyingduck. I think you'll find at the start, the race was deemed wet.
It was decleared wet but called dry midway.
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Old 1 May 2012, 22:12 (Ref:3068114)   #61
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The commentary team seemed pretty clear on it, if the race was called dry, we’d see a safety car and everyone would pull in and change to slicks.
I remember thinking it was going to take the sport out of “making the call”.

If this wasn’t the case, it does make the Booth/Heimgartner calls to change onto slicks odd indeed… The only way it’d make sense to change is if you know you can make up the time (and they change was only ever going to be worth 4second a lap at best, less than a third of the gain they needed), if you think the Wets are going to start falling off cars (and that would have been a bold bold call that early on) or they believed there was going to be a safety car as the commentators had said.

Be interesting to see where the commentators got the safety car idea from.
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Old 2 May 2012, 02:58 (Ref:3068168)   #62
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It had to be a punt, he was at the back of the field by a margin, nothing to loose, everything to gain, saved a set of wets and 20 points for fastest lap.
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Old 2 May 2012, 04:26 (Ref:3068174)   #63
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Where is everyone getting this the safety car will come out to fit slicks on a drying track? The track was drying but not enough and the wets although destroyed stood up to the task.

The race was called dry.
I read the rules before round 1 may have changed now and also if you listened to the tv commentator mork was talking about it. I would like someone in the know to explain if it has changed.

So was a dry track board shown?

Does the safety car only come out when going from dry to wet?
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Old 2 May 2012, 08:47 (Ref:3068205)   #64
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I read the rules before round 1 may have changed now and also if you listened to the tv commentator mork was talking about it. I would like someone in the know to explain if it has changed.

So was a dry track board shown?

Does the safety car only come out when going from dry to wet?
The safety car only comes out when the race/meeting is declared wet. Free for all when it has dried and declared that.

Race control called dry midway as I said.
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Old 2 May 2012, 08:50 (Ref:3068206)   #65
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Originally Posted by flyingduck View Post
So was a dry track board shown?

Does the safety car only come out when going from dry to wet?
There is no 'dry track board'. I believe its the competitors call to change back to slicks if the track dries out after the race starts.

I dont believe that there is any Motorsport NZ/FIA ruling on sending out the safety car in this situation, but in this case it was V8ST's decision to do so if they needed to.
I believe this was due to no-one having done any drying laps on the Hankook wet tyre, so if the tires started to shred themselves or fall apart part way through the race, then V8ST's had the option of putting out a safety car to prevent any major problems arising...
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Old 2 May 2012, 10:03 (Ref:3068225)   #66
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There is no 'dry track board'. I believe its the competitors call to change back to slicks if the track dries out after the race starts.

I dont believe that there is any Motorsport NZ/FIA ruling on sending out the safety car in this situation, but in this case it was V8ST's decision to do so if they needed to.
I believe this was due to no-one having done any drying laps on the Hankook wet tyre, so if the tires started to shred themselves or fall apart part way through the race, then V8ST's had the option of putting out a safety car to prevent any major problems arising...
No, race control calls dry then it's up to the teams what to do.
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Old 2 May 2012, 10:13 (Ref:3068226)   #67
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There is no 'dry track board'. I believe its the competitors call to change back to slicks if the track dries out after the race starts.
Mate, I'll post to again...

13.8 During Practice, Qualifying and any Race, wet weather tyres must be used after the Track has been declared wet by the Race Director directing that the Wet Weather Board be displayed at the Line. Wet weather tyres must continue to be used and dry weather tyres may not be fitted until the Dry Track Board has been displayed at the Line.

That says there is a "Dry Track Board"
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Old 2 May 2012, 22:09 (Ref:3068517)   #68
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Mate, I'll post to again...

13.8 During Practice, Qualifying and any Race, wet weather tyres must be used after the Track has been declared wet by the Race Director directing that the Wet Weather Board be displayed at the Line. Wet weather tyres must continue to be used and dry weather tyres may not be fitted until the Dry Track Board has been displayed at the Line.

That says there is a "Dry Track Board"
This is what I had read before the first round as well, be interested to hear from the people in the know if the rule has changed, I agree this is not done in any class before but after seeing the damage at round 1 of NZV8's could be a smart move for when it rains.
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Old 2 May 2012, 22:27 (Ref:3068522)   #69
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I agree this is not done in any class before but after seeing the damage at round 1 of NZV8's could be a smart move for when it rains.
And that is exactly the point. V8ST organisers don't want the sort of lunacy we saw in NZV8's at Pukekohe. They don't want these cars all busted up if it rains when the cars are on slicks.

33.10 Race declared wet under Safety Car – While the Safety Car is deployed, the Race Director may declare the track wet by ordering the display of the Wet Weather Board at the Line in which case, the following procedure shall apply:
(a) the Safety Car will lead all Cars in to Pit Lane and stop at the Pit exit;
(b) all Cars must follow the Safety Car in to Pit Lane and proceed to their respective Pit and, if they are not already on wet weather tyres, change to wet weather tyres at the Car’s Pit;
(c) a signal will be given not less than four (4) minutes after the last Car entered the Pit Lane. On this signal, all Cars must leave their Pit and re-assemble behind the Safety Car at Pit exit in the order in which they entered Pit Lane (as directed by the Marshals at Pit exit, if necessary);
(d) when the Race Director so directs, the Safety Car will lead all Cars back on to the Track.

I can hear all the "drive to the conditions" believers already. Look, there is always one Ayrton-wannabe who thinks he can drive a little quicker in the wet than everyone else until he crashes, possibly taking others with him.
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Old 4 May 2012, 03:44 (Ref:3069075)   #70
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And that is exactly the point. V8ST organisers don't want the sort of lunacy we saw in NZV8's at Pukekohe. They don't want these cars all busted up if it rains when the cars are on slicks.

33.10 Race declared wet under Safety Car – While the Safety Car is deployed, the Race Director may declare the track wet by ordering the display of the Wet Weather Board at the Line in which case, the following procedure shall apply:
(a) the Safety Car will lead all Cars in to Pit Lane and stop at the Pit exit;
(b) all Cars must follow the Safety Car in to Pit Lane and proceed to their respective Pit and, if they are not already on wet weather tyres, change to wet weather tyres at the Car’s Pit;
(c) a signal will be given not less than four (4) minutes after the last Car entered the Pit Lane. On this signal, all Cars must leave their Pit and re-assemble behind the Safety Car at Pit exit in the order in which they entered Pit Lane (as directed by the Marshals at Pit exit, if necessary);
(d) when the Race Director so directs, the Safety Car will lead all Cars back on to the Track.

I can hear all the "drive to the conditions" believers already. Look, there is always one Ayrton-wannabe who thinks he can drive a little quicker in the wet than everyone else until he crashes, possibly taking others with him.
yeah I agree, but as one of the top tiers of motorsport in NZ I would think it should be up to the drivers/team not the race director, I think there is nothing better to watch than someone pushing in damp conditions on slicks
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Old 4 May 2012, 07:13 (Ref:3069126)   #71
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Hey St00ge, I completely agree with you. That sort of racing is always great to watch if those drivers know what they're doing. But it's a matter of perspective isn't it; the punters love it, the car owners sit quietly and **** themselves about whether their $250,000 race cars will finish in one piece, or get wrecked by someone overdriving into them. Someone has to make sensible calls, and I didn't see that at Puke.
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