Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22 May 2012, 10:32 (Ref:3077737)   #1351
harcey
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 220
harcey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerH View Post
Yes, you are both correct - there are tough economic times where discretionary spending takes a hit and that effects motorsport - also, different classes have had their highs and lows over the years (and yes, I was around then).
However, when you consider that the cost of running a Tier 1 season, anchored around the NZV8s, is around $3.4m you have to wonder if the Sport is getting value for money when the Classic meetings are getting a significantly larger number of entrants and paying spectators for a fraction of the spend.
Surely there is a message when there are reputably more paying spectators at just one major Classic meeting than at the combined six Tier 1 meetings.
I'm not saying that the pinnacle of NZ motorsport should be Classic racing but it must indicate that Tier 1 is doing something wrong and Classic racing is doing something right.
well i guess the blues dont cancel their season because they are losing games and the crowds are down.
tier 1 has had a hard year....i suppose in sports terms would be called a 'transition' year..
however,as an avid motorsport follower please tell me what classic event smoked the entire tier 1 season,cause i havent seen it.....!!
harcey is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 11:02 (Ref:3077746)   #1352
RogerH
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 456
RogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by harcey View Post
well i guess the blues dont cancel their season because they are losing games and the crowds are down.
tier 1 has had a hard year....i suppose in sports terms would be called a 'transition' year..
however,as an avid motorsport follower please tell me what classic event smoked the entire tier 1 season,cause i havent seen it.....!!
At the MSNZ Conference, Chris Watson from Hampton Downs said the gate takings from the recent Classic Festival (BMW Festival held in January) were more than the total Tier 1 season's gate takings as shown in the most recent TMC accounts. I recollect that in another discussion he said that over the last few years there had been five events they had held which individually took in more than the Tier 1 season's takings.
When you think about it, it is not that surprising. The most recently reported season's Tier 1 gate takings were around $172k (figure from TMC's accounts). If you divide that by an average ticket price of $25 you get a total of 6880 paying spectators over all six rounds. I would think that the BMW Festival (and the previous Bruce McLaren and Chris Amon Festivals) easily had more than 6880 paying spectators at each of those events.
RogerH is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 14:07 (Ref:3077827)   #1353
DX20VT
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 325
DX20VT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And you may find if Tier one was held as 6 rounds at Hampton Downs the good numbers may be there too.


All classes can have a good one off entry,
Production GT had something link 35 to 30 cars at Teretonga.

Try getting you masses of Classic competitors to run a full season of races across all the NZ tracks and see how many would still enter?

For the good of motorsport in NZ a series may have to suffer some low numbers at some tracks to help promote others,

after all it is Motorsport New Zealand, Not Motorsport Auckland.
DX20VT is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 20:07 (Ref:3078001)   #1354
Southern Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 665
Southern Man should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Add to the gate $$$$ debate that TMC only declare their share of the gate takings. Every circuit has their own contract with them as to the level of services, equipment and manpower supplied etc and this is reflected in the share of the gate.

As a member of a car club that actually owns it's race circuit complete with all land, buildings and equipment etc I do have a pretty good understanding of how much it costs to run any race meeting be it a club day or an international status meeting.

Trust me there is s.f.a. left at the end of the day and there in lies the major problem.

Live TV does not help either, that has decimated gate numbers
Southern Man is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 20:58 (Ref:3078047)   #1355
RogerH
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 456
RogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX20VT View Post
And you may find if Tier one was held as 6 rounds at Hampton Downs the good numbers may be there too.


All classes can have a good one off entry,
Production GT had something link 35 to 30 cars at Teretonga.

Try getting you masses of Classic competitors to run a full season of races across all the NZ tracks and see how many would still enter?

For the good of motorsport in NZ a series may have to suffer some low numbers at some tracks to help promote others,

after all it is Motorsport New Zealand, Not Motorsport Auckland.
I agree that ideally a MSNZ Championship Series should be run throughout the country but do you persevere with the same old format throwing millions of dollars at it when it is not working?

With the Production GT class at Teretonga in January there were actually 23 entrants (the separate Sports GT grid had 10 entrants). With respect to these drivers, most were locals doing a one-off event and were not MSNZ Championship Series contenders. In fact, with the combined Production and Sports GT Series there was only one car that did all championship rounds - hardly indicative of a robust championship series.

The comment about MSNZ not being Motor Sport Auckland is closer to the truth than perhaps you realise. Motor sport competitors and cubs in Auckland actually get pretty much ignored by MSNZ and that is behind some of the grips. There are about 97 affiliated clubs to MSNZ but only 23 come from Auckland. The Auckland based clubs tend to have larger membership numbers than other clubs. However, each club has a vote irrespective of it's member numbers - a club with 10 members has the same say as a club with 300 members.
It appears from entrant records that around half of MSNZ's licensed competitors compete on the Auckland based tracks but within MSNZ the Auckland clubs have less than 25% say. Despite the competitor numbers and the income generated through the Auckland clubs, it appears that there is little affinity within MSNZ for either Auckland or the historic and classic fraternity (hardly surprising considering there has been no Aucklander on MSNZ Executive for over 10 years and no H&C person for almost a similar period). Due to the 75% voting block from non-Auckland clubs it is almost impossible to get representation so there is no point in putting your name forward.
RogerH is offline  
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 22:26 (Ref:3078085)   #1356
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX20VT View Post
And you may find if Tier one was held as 6 rounds at Hampton Downs the good numbers may be there too.


All classes can have a good one off entry,
Production GT had something link 35 to 30 cars at Teretonga.

Try getting you masses of Classic competitors to run a full season of races across all the NZ tracks and see how many would still enter?

For the good of motorsport in NZ a series may have to suffer some low numbers at some tracks to help promote others,

after all it is Motorsport New Zealand, Not Motorsport Auckland.
The F5000's do a great job of running a full series including Oz rounds, they always get a packed grid and lots of spectators.

Interesting comment from SM regarding what live TV does to spectator numbers. I am a bit on the fence on that one, it probably works to have it one week later (max) but some might argue that the TV coverage boosts the profile of the sport, thereby encouraging people to get along and see it when it gets to their town. This is something that TMC have never done very well, which I reckon is much more of a problem than the TV coverage.

Also lack of decent support classes never helped either, probably a bit better this year with the GT's but I'd been long gone as a paying spectator by then. By contrast, I always go to the F5000's and I will be going to the ST's again next month. You figure it out...
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 23:02 (Ref:3078090)   #1357
flyingduck
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 905
flyingduck should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Goat boy

I do fail to understand your post on one hand you talk about weak supports which in the tier one before this year which included GT3, Toyota, Formula Ford, and others yet you are williing to go to ST which has one of the weakest supports I have seen with top level motorsport. In fact it's one of the few limiting things to putting a good show that the ST boys have got.

I do agree with you about the TV coverage with the right promotion TV should help get better gates, look at the Australian series and many others the site and sounds of the cars are so much better live than on TV people should want to go to it.
flyingduck is offline  
__________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
Quote
Old 22 May 2012, 23:26 (Ref:3078097)   #1358
promax
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 2,667
promax has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
has ST even named their supports.. or will it be more open "run what you brung" classes again?
promax is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 00:39 (Ref:3078106)   #1359
Biggy G
Veteran
 
Biggy G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 801
Biggy G should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
All on their website Promax

Japanese Open Class
Allcomers Saloons
Production Muscle
V8ChallengeCup
Biggy G is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 00:43 (Ref:3078107)   #1360
smokin'joe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 849
smokin'joe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggy G View Post
All on their website Promax

Japanese Open Class
Allcomers Saloons
Production Muscle
V8ChallengeCup

looks good. they have created three new classes that could allow the same car in each (except V8 challenge.)

something like a toyota Supra or GTR nissan could be entered in three classes, to boost fields.
smokin'joe is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 01:41 (Ref:3078112)   #1361
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingduck View Post
Goat boy

I do fail to understand your post on one hand you talk about weak supports which in the tier one before this year which included GT3, Toyota, Formula Ford, and others yet you are williing to go to ST which has one of the weakest supports I have seen with top level motorsport. In fact it's one of the few limiting things to putting a good show that the ST boys have got.
TRS were not always there, GT3 was good but the main dish ended up being slower than at least two of the supports in those instances - ever decreasing fields made it not really worth the trip. It used to be good!

I agree the ST's need better support, hopefully that will come next season, but in their case the main course is worth the wait. In any case, they had CMC last time and we all LOVE them
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 01:52 (Ref:3078114)   #1362
promax
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 2,667
promax has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
CMC were also at the GP round
promax is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 20:10 (Ref:3078482)   #1363
promax
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 2,667
promax has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
since everyone loves photos
promax is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 22:34 (Ref:3078551)   #1364
NZSTfan
Veteran
 
NZSTfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
New Zealand
car heaven
Posts: 1,366
NZSTfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
WOW! another unfinished carcass or two at the MRX shop.

Any photos floating around of completed cars? and by that i mean cars with new engines and g/boxes?? even better would be some in car video (or out-car will do) showing the completed idea in action.
NZSTfan is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 22:50 (Ref:3078557)   #1365
promax
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 2,667
promax has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
hmm the last race was in April.. it's now May.. and the new season doesn't start until December

would like me to get harcey to explain to you.. that teams looking to race the new gen cars.. would've been rather busy with their 11/12 season commitments.. so you may have to wait a while before you get the youtube videos you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.. about
promax is offline  
Quote
Old 23 May 2012, 23:32 (Ref:3078573)   #1366
NZSTfan
Veteran
 
NZSTfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
New Zealand
car heaven
Posts: 1,366
NZSTfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by promax View Post
hmm the last race was in April.. it's now May.. and the new season doesn't start until December

would like me to get harcey to explain to you.. that teams looking to race the new gen cars.. would've been rather busy with their 11/12 season commitments.. so you may have to wait a while before you get the youtube videos you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.. about

Yes i realise that Promax, but December is not far away and there has been no testing done on the completed car yet. And then there are the parity issues to sort out etc especially if Toyota and any other manufacturers come on board. There isn't even a confirmed driver list (unless PM your magically gunna pull that one out of thin air?) I dont need harcey to explain anything to me, but thanks for the offer
NZSTfan is offline  
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 01:27 (Ref:3078597)   #1367
RogerH
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 456
RogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If I recollect correctly, at the recent MSNZ conference there was a question regarding the $57,000 "asset" sitting in the MSNZ accounts for the new NZV8 Intellectual Property (design and jigs). In response to the question, MSNZ said it had already recovered $12,000 and I think the fee to prospective buyer was $4,000 per car - so it looks like three of the new NZV8 cars have been sold. Only another 11 and a bit cars to be sold for MSNZ to recover it's member clubs money.
RogerH is offline  
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 02:15 (Ref:3078600)   #1368
flyingduck
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 905
flyingduck should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
TRS were not always there, GT3 was good but the main dish ended up being slower than at least two of the supports in those instances - ever decreasing fields made it not really worth the trip. It used to be good!

I agree the ST's need better support, hopefully that will come next season, but in their case the main course is worth the wait. In any case, they had CMC last time and we all LOVE them
I don't understand the comment about the supports being faster than the main class, TRS would be quicker than an ST if they wanted to run with ST should they not due to be quicker and some of the GT1 boys would be faster than an ST should they not run as well. The Top class doesn't need to be the fastest.
flyingduck is offline  
__________________
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 02:42 (Ref:3078601)   #1369
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingduck View Post
I don't understand the comment about the supports being faster than the main class, TRS would be quicker than an ST if they wanted to run with ST should they not due to be quicker and some of the GT1 boys would be faster than an ST should they not run as well. The Top class doesn't need to be the fastest.
Just to play devils advocate maybe the TRS should have been the top class?

Realistically, people would not expect an open wheeler to be slower than a tin-top, so the TRS get an exemption, but if you look at say the V8 Supercars, can you name another tin-top class that race with them that goes round the circuit faster?

I think the top class needs to be top in one way or another, which was the problem with the NZV8's last season - no top drivers, old slow cars and small grids. The revamp was well overdue. If they do manage to get a third manufacturer on the grid I would be up for going to watch, for sure.
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 06:11 (Ref:3078632)   #1370
Icarus_nz
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
New Zealand
Paradise
Posts: 498
Icarus_nz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridIcarus_nz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It isn't just about being fast though is it?

Big, Fast, Loud, Close racing, Recognisable drivers.

If you can get all of these elements you're onto a good thing.
Personally I think it would be great if V8ST drilled holes in their exhaust

I'd be interested to know how people rank these attributes.

For me it is:
1. Big
2. Fast
3. Close Racing
4. Recognisable drivers
5. Loud

Let the debate begin!

PS - anything else that is really important?
Icarus_nz is offline  
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 06:16 (Ref:3078633)   #1371
promax
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 2,667
promax has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus_nz View Post
Personally I think it would be great if V8ST drilled holes in their exhaust
what he said!
promax is offline  
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 06:37 (Ref:3078642)   #1372
on_to_it
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 940
on_to_it has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by promax View Post
what he said!
Second that! They are just a few decibels too quiet for me too.
on_to_it is offline  
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 06:51 (Ref:3078647)   #1373
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus_nz View Post
It isn't just about being fast though is it?

Big, Fast, Loud, Close racing, Recognisable drivers.

If you can get all of these elements you're onto a good thing.
Personally I think it would be great if V8ST drilled holes in their exhaust

I'd be interested to know how people rank these attributes.

For me it is:
1. Big
2. Fast
3. Close Racing
4. Recognisable drivers
5. Loud

Let the debate begin!

PS - anything else that is really important?
Agreed! On all points! Although might put it as 2,5,3,1,4
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 11:50 (Ref:3078779)   #1374
smokin'joe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 849
smokin'joe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Agreed! On all points! Although might put it as 2,5,3,1,4
so you are quite partial to muscle cars as well
smokin'joe is offline  
Quote
Old 24 May 2012, 12:35 (Ref:3078795)   #1375
BlueBlood
Veteran
 
BlueBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
New Zealand
Auckland NZ
Posts: 842
BlueBlood should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Muscle cars is real racing, steel bodies, the engines match the badge on the front, noise, classic shapes, nostalgia, what more could you ask for?
BlueBlood is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IRISH CSHIP 2011/12 Ramah Rallying & Rallycross 13 12 Oct 2011 11:14
2011 Bathurst 12 Hour Belly13 Australasian Touring Cars. 773 28 Feb 2011 07:19
Bathurst 12 Hour Race 2011 Acid09 Sportscar & GT Racing 19 6 Feb 2011 09:31


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.