Michelin to change tyres before Monza?

[Adam43]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
I really do not understand why Michelin suggests a boycot of Monza.

Sorry, I haven't seen any suggestion (certainly by Michelin) of a boycott.

[MichaelH]

storm in a teacup, I think.

It probably won't go through, even if it does just because the tyres need to be changed the Williams, McLaren and Renaults won't suddenly be slow. Ferraris performance problems are down to Ferrari....remember the Sauber of Heidfeld kept Schumacher in sight in Hungary on Bridgestones....

[Adam43]

Originally posted by av8rirl
I didn't think that increasing the tread width was desirable??

More rubber on the road?

[Adam43]

It is obviously just me, but it seems there is a lot of over reation to this flying around the world of F1.

[NiceGuyEddie]

In reaction, Michelin would like to point out some facts:

We would like to point out a few facts :

- our front tyre profile has been deemed « to comply with the F1 Regulations » in writing by the FIA. The controls have been made on new tyres, which confirms the interpretation of article 77, c).

- the procedure to measure the width of a contact patch as required now is unknown at the moment, which prevents any further work. We can expect some difficulties in the definition since a tyre in its use can be in systematic contact with various 'objects', for example curbs, which, according to their profile and position, can touch up as far as the middle of the side walls.

(Well... its fairly easy. Your job is to make sure the tread width doesn't exceed 270 mm. Never have FIA rules been more clearer - NGE)

- all Michelin's partners are concerned by this regulation change, as they all use the same front tyre profile.
(Yes, again, your problem. Keep your partners happy and stick to your contractual obligations by creating a tyre which is maximal effective, within the rules - NGE)

- we are fully open to discuss this regulation change wished by the FIA and help to define a measurement procedure which could be enforced in 2004. We feel it is of course not realistic to ask for it before the Italian F1 Grand Prix.
(No, no, no. No regulation change at all. There is really nothing going on. The FIA merely decided that a tread width of 270 mm can be better enforced when measurements take place after race, sooner than before. Of course, this shouldn't confront you with any problem if, and only if, your tyre doesn't exceed the maximum 270 mm, before, during and after the race - NGE)

F1live.com

[Adam43]

there is already a thread on this - merged

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by av8rirl
I didn't think that increasing the tread width was desirable?? Or do you mean the distance from tread to tread?

In 1998 tread width was reduced in order to bring down griplevels. So surely, larger tread width has some advantages.

[Inigo Montoya]

Aaaahhhaaa! So Michelin is cheating - CHEATERS!!!

Well... that is what most would have said if the roles were reversed

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by 429CJ
Mediterranian mafia at it again...

[neilap]

Originally posted by MichaelH
Ferraris performance problems are down to Ferrari....remember the Sauber of Heidfeld kept Schumacher in sight in Hungary on Bridgestones....

What was the difference, 20 seconds, right? I would not call that exactly in sight. Also Trulli was holding MS up badly. The problem was that MS did not have the grip to accelerate out of the corners nor brake as deep into them. Has MS gotten around Trulli they would not have been that close. Regardless how fast a car it is, if it has no grip then it wont be fast.

Again, the next race will tell. If Michelin is slow then it could reveal how they gained so much on Bridgestone. It would be by bending the rules. If they are still dominant then maybe their tires did conform. The comments they are spewing about not having time to develop new tires is pure garbage. I remember reading about how they can produce new tires over a very short time, much shorter than BS. In fact on speed they suggested the tires were shipped in temperature controlled containers and that the tires are built specifically to the expected weather at the next race. If they can do that, and if they are running legal tires, then there is no issue here at all. Them crying foul only makes them look guilty.

[Bononi]

Guys, I think we're going out of the limits here...




Please let's keep it cool.

[Knowlesy]

I am also of the opinion that Ferrari have made errors on their car. Why else would they be throwing new wings and all sorts at the thing for Monza? It's small changes like the wheelbase being longer than last year etc... that have supposedly hampered it. Maybe the new engine isn't as driveable as it used to be due to its power jump from last year. Little things like that.

Bridgestone are partly to blame, though not en-tyre-ly.






I'll get my coat.......

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Wrex
Can I direct everyone to the thread at the top of this forum. I can't see some here saying the same thing if it were BS, Ferrari or MS involved, can you?

Lets stick to facts, not fantasy.

............all our discussions are based on fantasy. We fantasize about what will happen in nearly every thread. Wouldn't it be funny if the 1st and 2nd placed cars were disqialified after the race on a measurement technicality.

[DriverT]

... or indeed all of them on Michelin tyres??

[DNQ]

WHAT!

I just read this, it's bloody typical of the FIAerrari!

[bosch!]

We've been here before, anyway heres how the FIA are going to win the championship for Ferrari...

Michelin Statement:-

After the Hungarian GP, the FIA has decided a new interpretation of the Sporting Regulation concerning F1 tyres. This applies to the definition of the front tyres tread width, which was so far measured when new, according to article 77)c) of the Sporting Regulations. The FIA wants us now to consider the width of the front contact patch after the tyre has been used on track.

We would like to point out a few facts :

- our front tyre profile has been deemed "to comply with the F1 Regulations" in writing by the FIA. The controls have been made on new tyres, which confirms the interpretation of article 77)c).

- the procedure to measure the width of a contact patch as required now is unknown at the moment, which prevents any further work. We can expect some difficulties in the definition since a tyre in its use can be in systematic contact with various 'objects', for example curbs, which, according to their profile and position, can touch up as far as the middle of the side walls.

- all Michelin's partners are concerned by this regulation change, as they all use the same front tyre profile

- we are fully open to discuss this regulation change wished by the FIA and help to define a measurement procedure which could be enforced in 2004. We feel it is of course not realistic to ask for it before the Italian F1 Grand Prix.

-------------------------------------------------

Earlier in the season the michelins were running as slicks by the end of the race, but no action was taken. Earlier on in the season the michelins needed to be scrubbed, but as of late they seem to be able to run fast when green. lately there has been a lot more visable tread, so the question is why are the FIA attempting to change the rules now.

Discuss

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Wouldn't it be funny if the 1st and 2nd placed cars were disqialified after the race on a measurement technicality.

Not sure i share your sense of humour there Valve

Extreme case senario, but should we have a repeat of the results at Hungary, effectively the 8th placed driver could win

[Mr V]

Check the other thread bosch

[bosch!]

slightly different slant here i think, if not im sure a moderator will merge the threads.

[Rossi # 46]

Originally posted by neilap
What was the difference, 20 seconds, right? I would not call that exactly in sight. Also Trulli was holding MS up badly. The problem was that MS did not have the grip to accelerate out of the corners nor brake as deep into them. Has MS gotten around Trulli they would not have been that close. Regardless how fast a car it is, if it has no grip then it wont be fast.

Again, the next race will tell. If Michelin is slow then it could reveal how they gained so much on Bridgestone. It would be by bending the rules. If they are still dominant then maybe their tires did conform. The comments they are spewing about not having time to develop new tires is pure garbage. I remember reading about how they can produce new tires over a very short time, much shorter than BS. In fact on speed they suggested the tires were shipped in temperature controlled containers and that the tires are built specifically to the expected weather at the next race. If they can do that, and if they are running legal tires, then there is no issue here at all. Them crying foul only makes them look guilty.

Bridgestone have been **** ever since Monaco. Does this mean they were bending the rules??

[z2252314]

Why arent Michelin kicked out!!! They're always trying to bend the rules.

The first tyres they came up with were virtually slicks, with the grooves dissapearing after a few laps.

Their second generation tyres were based on assymetric groves (Completely ignoring the rules).

Now they have tyres which expand during the race!!!

This is a complete joke. Williams, Mac and Renault have made a mockery of the rules. Everyone was shocked how Michelin could suddenly eliminate Ferrari's advantage in the turn of a race. If Michelin teams are allowed to keep their points it will be a farce!!! They've been using illegal tyres all season!!!!\

[Wrex]

We've had some corkers in the past, but jeez there are some moronic comments in this thread.


I wonder, If it were Ferrari and BS on the comeback at the moment, looking at a certain win, and we found out there were using suspicious rubber, would everyone here have the same comments? Not likely.

If a team, any team, is using a component that was outside the rules, ban it. Simple. We have seen it before, we will see it again.

IMO, its not Ferrari or BS you should be mad at, it's Michellin that have dropped the ball here.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't think so Wrex - this goes deeper than it looks if you really want to discuss this seriously. As Bosch pointed out above, Michelin has stated:

- our front tyre profile has been deemed "to comply with the F1 Regulations" in writing by the FIA. The controls have been made on new tyres, which confirms the interpretation of article 77)c).

.

Under the circumstances, I cannot think of any reason for the FIA to issue this warning unless it is on the disapearance of the grooves after the tyre is partially worn during the race.
To issue a warning concerning the measurement of tyres which will be enforced in two weeks time begs the question: why were the tyres not measured in the proposed manner from the beginning of a season with the warning coming after the last race of the previous season?. If indeed the FIA thinks tyres are being used that do not conform to measurements, why have they waited till this late in a season and then give only 2 weeks warning?

This is a discussion forum, and while some posters get heated and or passionate from what they perceive as biased rulings, to call their comments moronic is ......(I can't think of an appropriate word here).

[Wrex]

I'm sure you'll get over it Valve, but I only someone that was guilty of it would be insulted would'nt they?

As for your post, more unsubstantiated rubbish. Why did'nt they leave it until the eve of the GP then? What sort of logic is that? Just so we are clear:


THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED A RULE

You seem to be ignoring that part (selective reading is a common problem is'nt it).

The rules are simple, you must have a tyre within a certain width. When it is measured is irrevant.

If the cars were weighed before the race and you learnt Ferrai had come up with a way to meet that requiement but gain an advatage during the race (despite a rule saying cars must have a minimum weight), you would surely cry blue Murder (you especially)


Can't have it both ways.

[corkholio]

Didn't Michelin assume the risk of being bitten back in the arse if they had knowingly explored a loophole and developed a tire that would break the written rule? If the tires do break the written rules, what's the big deal about being measured after the race as long as they are legal? There wouldn't be much the FIA can do about it if their tires are within the written rules.