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Old 20 Dec 2013, 16:56 (Ref:3346365)   #3226
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gustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Yes, I agree.
+1
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Old 21 Dec 2013, 11:58 (Ref:3346585)   #3227
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I reckon when this hits the track ..... it will hit it running and will challenge regurlarly on the podium .

Just from past experience .
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Old 21 Dec 2013, 12:30 (Ref:3346592)   #3228
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Just being as pedantic as some.
Hmmmmm.... And who, pray tell, might that be???



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Old 21 Dec 2013, 12:36 (Ref:3346594)   #3229
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This may just be my personal desire/preference about Le Mans history speaking but...





#20, #21, and #22 don't seem too far from the realm of possibility, don't you think? Perhaps they will re-visit those numbers...considering the significance.
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Old 21 Dec 2013, 13:56 (Ref:3346620)   #3230
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Updated: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/porsche-919/

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Videos such as the one above deliberately blur out the engine but there are clear signs that it is a V type engine. A V4 is very unusual format for a racing engine but thought to be a good one.
"clear signs" = ?
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Old 21 Dec 2013, 17:07 (Ref:3346684)   #3231
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Starfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridStarfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridStarfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Rallying Fulvias had a V4 engine. Is the only racing car with a V4 layout I know.
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Old 21 Dec 2013, 21:02 (Ref:3346765)   #3232
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There was a rallying version of ZAZ 968 in the early 70's with air-cooled V4. Racing ZAZ had a 4-inline block from Lada.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 01:29 (Ref:3346818)   #3233
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porman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridporman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridporman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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I reckon when this hits the track ..... it will hit it running and will challenge regurlarly on the podium .

Just from past experience .
I hope you are right, but fear that may be a tall mountain to climb. I don't think we can count on their past as heavily as we would like. This is an entirely different beast. A new team is enough to throw in a few wrenches, then when you factor in the hybrid element we are talking about to many unknowns. Call me a realist but Porsche is behind both Audi and Toyota in many aspects. The goal posts have changed largely since the days when Porsche raced and was able to rely almost entirely on their previous knowledge.

Here's to hoping you're right.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 02:02 (Ref:3346823)   #3234
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when you factor in the hybrid element we are talking about too many unknowns. Call me a realist but Porsche is behind both Audi and Toyota in many aspects. The goal posts have changed largely since the days when Porsche raced and was able to rely almost entirely on their previous knowledge.

Here's to hoping you're right.
Remember that it was Porsche in 2010 that introduced the 911 GT3R hybrid with the flywheel ERS. They may not have raced as long as Audi and Toyota, but they began this game before them.

Interesting that Audi has now chosen the flywheel system while Porsche has chosen to go the battery route. Maybe, they learned some things in their previous testing?

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Old 22 Dec 2013, 06:22 (Ref:3346838)   #3235
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The flywheel was with help from williams. Its not porsche's technology, and its not as powerful as batteries (but lighter) so I think its a smart move.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 06:27 (Ref:3346840)   #3236
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The flywheel was manufactured by Williams to Porsches specification. There is a lot more to a hybrid system than just the flywheel. The rest of the system is a Porsche system.
Also - Porsche have experience with the 918 hybrid.

Having said all that, I still think 2014 is going to be a very steep hill to climb.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 07:11 (Ref:3346844)   #3237
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The flywheel was with help from williams. Its not porsche's technology, and its not as powerful as batteries (but lighter) so I think its a smart move.
But you have to rememeber Piëch is only allowing Audi vs. Porsche on the grounds that they showcase difierent tech solutions. Plus the PR pay masters would like the batterey link with the 918, so the designers might not have the free hands as you might think.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 07:59 (Ref:3346848)   #3238
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The flywheel solution is at a disadvantage. Who it belongs to or used by isn't the point Im making. Just stating that Porsche moving on is a better move imo.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 19:46 (Ref:3347030)   #3239
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The flywheel solution is at a disadvantage. Who it belongs to or used by isn't the point Im making. Just stating that Porsche moving on is a better move imo.
What are the disadvantages? I can think of one in that batteries can be molded and built in shapes to fit more easily into available spaces. The speed of retrieval and delivery of juice seems to be in the flywheel's favor. The fire component seems to be in the flywheel's favor.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 19:47 (Ref:3347031)   #3240
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It's the weight and the capacity I think.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 20:57 (Ref:3347045)   #3241
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A flywheel works best with as high a speed as possible and with a large a diameter. Weight is not a critical factor in its energy storage potential.
If you can get it running in near vaccum conditions then you reduce friction. The other factor is to make the electro mechanical conversion as efficient as possible.
A flywheel for a given weight has probably got greater potential energy storage than a battery as you only need to be able to increase its speed but.....
Its disadvantages are primarily size, shape and energy loss to friction.
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Old 22 Dec 2013, 21:14 (Ref:3347058)   #3242
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The difference is well understood: battery has better energy density and flywheel has better power density (and hence faster charging/discharging).
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 12:53 (Ref:3347585)   #3243
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The LMP1 Regulations and Technology

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAagbpVg9LU
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 17:46 (Ref:3347635)   #3244
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That engineer has a strange accent ("kaann", "daann", "Systeem" sound strange). Where is he from?
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3347643)   #3245
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That engineer has a strange accent ("kaann", "daann", "Systeem" sound strange). Where is he from?
Definitely Southern Bavaria, but closer to Ingolstadt than to Munich, I'd say.
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Old 24 Dec 2013, 23:47 (Ref:3347703)   #3246
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According to Williams, the flywheel is of higher efficiency (90%), higher energy density, and better reliability. The one used on 911 GT3-R hybrid revs to 36,500 rpm, while the same system on Audi revs to 45,000rpm so there must be more potential. The only problem will be the adverse effect of a high speed rotary.(just as the helicopter I suppose).
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 05:51 (Ref:3347723)   #3247
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The only problem will be the adverse effect of a high speed rotary.(just as the helicopter I suppose).
Haven't a clue on how the flywheel is used in hybrid but am really not understanding what "high speed rotary" means. 'Will Google, but any links/brief explanation?

(Google netted nothing)
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 09:26 (Ref:3347732)   #3248
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Haven't a clue on how the flywheel is used in hybrid but am really not understanding what "high speed rotary" means. 'Will Google, but any links/brief explanation?

(Google netted nothing)
You can gyrosopic effects with a flywheel that can effect handling and roadholding.
A simple example is to spin a bicycle wheel between your two hands (off bicycle) and turn to one side with it spinning.
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 09:36 (Ref:3347734)   #3249
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Would two wheels spinning opposite ways cancel each other out?
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Old 25 Dec 2013, 10:44 (Ref:3347753)   #3250
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Would two wheels spinning opposite ways cancel each other out?
In 2008 Bosch Motorsport presented a solution with four flywheels:

source: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008...developin.html

More info about the Bosch solution on http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ormula-1-kers/

The fact that the Williams Hybrid Power solution uses a single flywheel suggests that the gyroscopic effect is not noticeable. The weight of the flywheel is pretty low, but it spins very fast.
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