Fuel pricing in the UK

[White Van Man]

OK folks - the dump the pumps campaign failed miserably but, this afternoon, i've received a fax which is circulating among hauliers, farmers and in general industry - we are, it seems, finally going to learn something from the French...

18th Spetember will be a day of direct action outside ports and fuel refineries - with the intention, not of bringing the country to a stop, but of demonstrating what will happen if the goverment continues putting working men out of business with huge tax hikes on fuel. If they carry on doing this, the country will grind to a halt as no-one can afford to run wagons anymore.

It seems that a continuing protest at Shell's Stanlow oil refinery near Ellesmere Port in Cheshire is a major success, and Shell are reporting that the protest will have an effect on petrol stations throughout the North of England from this evening.

Let's hope this gets the message across - it'll be about time.

[TimD]

In principle, I'm in favour.

The trouble is, it all seems so....


French.

[White Van Man]

Think back 30 years Tim - the British led the world in direct action back then. It very nearly could have bankrupted the entire country but, if this carries on, the goverment will be doing that to us anyway...

[TimD]

Oh, I'm certainly in favour of doing SOMETHING about this. Don't forget I used to drive for a living myself.

It's just that I've spent the last few years watching the French being bloody-minded and singling out Brits abroad when it comes to making their point, and getting hot under the collar about it.

Even yesterday on the news, I watched a tractor waiting to close a road into Calais - it let several local cars past, and then selected a British registered Vauxhall Cavalier as the car it was going to drive in front of to start a blockade.

I'd just hate to think that we were in any way emulating that.

[White Van Man]

Did you, Tim ? I like you! Who did you drive for, what did you drive ?

Don't worry about the bloody-minded thing - it's just the French being ther French.

[TimD]

What was I doing as a driver? Well, I was a courier for law firms in Hertfordshire, taking legal documents which needed to be in the hands of courts and other firms of solicitors, and which could not be entrusted to hired motorcyclists.

Plus it was more seemly for a legal brief to arrive at a solicitor's office delivered by a chap in a tie, who has stepped out of a Saab 9-5, rather than a chap with waterproofs and a skid-lid.

Not that I have anything against motorcycle couriers. Damon Hill was one.

And if you ever see the Vauxhall Corsa making a point of giving commercial vehicles their braking distances, and covering for them when they want a lane change - that'll be me, because driving from Dover to Doncaster and all points in between, gave me a very healthy regard for the folks who drive the "heavies".



I've just had a thought. Given enough cars, we could do a drive to rule. Every motorway jammed up with people doing PRECISELY 70mph. Not more, not less. I guarantee that will gum up the works beautifully, because the only way this road system works is because of the speedier journey times afforded by people driving at safe, high speed.

[Sparky]

I remember we discussed this a few months ago - a bit before your time, WVM.

The idea to increase awareness of the plight of the UK motorist is a good one; not just those that use the roads in the course of their business, such as yourself, but also those that rely on the vehicles themselves, and not just to get from A to B. I'm a motor engineer by trade, and I've noticed a drop in turnover recently. People are prepared to pay that little extra for fuel in order to keep moblie (if that's what it takes), but are skimping on other things, like servicing and minor repairs, simply because the money isn't there.

I agree with all the arguments against fuel price increases. Travel prices increase, Cost of goods increase, due to distribution costs, etc...

But the problem isn't just with the goverment. Although the 80% fuel tax we discussed all those threads ago still exists, any increase we see in next few days will be down to the increases in the cost of crude oil... and that's down to OPEC.

"..the dump the pumps campaign failed miserably.."

Blair has gone on record as saying that every penny reduction in the fuel prices will result in fewer nurses, hospital beds, school excercise books etc.

What do we do? We'll pay one way or the other. The Bar-stewards...

[Carrie]

Seemed appropriate to move this topic back up to the top. What's happening in your neck of the woods folks?
I'm here in the North West and the local radio has just been announcing petrol stations which still have fuel, basically that amounted to just a handful of petrol stations across the whole North West.
This morning I spent 25 minutes going down a road that normally takes 5 minutes, the reason, everyone queueing at the petrol station at Moss Nook. Later in the day when they had a delivery at lunchtime they were reporting hour long queues of over 40 cars at that garage, when I passed there at just gone 5 they were out of fuel again.
One of my neighbours and one of my friends both own garages and they were saying on Saturday that they'd had people into their garages for replacement petrol tanks because people have resorted to drilling or bashing holes in petrol tanks to steal the petrol Surely we can expect more of this when the garages who do have fuel are cashing in. One garage in Bolton put its prices up 16 pence a litre this morning. Something needs to be done and lets hope this is resolved quickly.
Also it is reported that the taxi drivers are joining the lorry drivers and farmers and this evening they carried out a blockade of Liverpool city centre.
It's easy to think that this will cripple the roads, but public transport isn't a viable alternative - buses and trains are bing cancelled because of a lack of diesel.
I work in a museum and to give you an indication it's a museum that gets nearly 200,000 visitors a year. Today I'd say that our visitors (excluding schools) could probably be counted in single figures, people just aren't going to travel to our sort of location when fuel is in such short supply

[White Van Man]

Well, well, well... seems the fax I received last week was a red herring thrown in to stop the petrol companies preparing as they would would have wished, and to increase the effectiveness of the campaign.

It certainly has done that - I was in the north of England yesterday, and much of the place was at a standstill as far as petrol goes. Back down south today, the full effects are just becoming apparent - forecourts closed, huge queues, major panic buying.

I made a total of 10 deliveries today - every single person I spoke to, without fail, was totally behind the protests. I filled a total of three trucks (and my car!) to the brim today - and it was that bad that once i'd fought my way to the front of the queue at one location, the bloody pump cut out half way through filling up, and the little bloke had to come out with yet another 'sorry - no more fuel' sign...

West Sussex fire brigade are refusing to go to non-emergency call outs, buses are being cancelled, refuse collections postponed. Looks like this protest is one with real bite - and it's about time that someone stood up to the goverment and their rip off taxes.

Many companies are reporting 40-50% of their stations are closed - with 75% expected to be closed tommorrow. At that point, expect a minor panic to ensue in the area of Whitehall, and i'd not be surprised to see the army mobilised. Let's hope that Mr Blair remembers there's an election soon...

Come on folks, get behind this protest - we all need your support. I'll report back here tommorrow with the latest 'news from the road'...

[Sparky]

I am very concerned about this. As I said in a previous post, something needs to be done, but the consequences of this boycott could be difficult to imagine.

Let's say that the largely 'pro-green' Labour Government (LG) announces after two months of sheer hell on the roads ('cos that's what it'll take) that they are prepared to drop fuel prices by 20%. (Even this seems a huge concession to me, and I'm not in government!!) We will pay in other ways.

If the LG does this, expect to see an increase on VAT (sales tax to non-Brits) to, say, 20% instead of the current 17 1/2%.

I also anticipate an increase in road fund licence and possibly even income tax at the next budget. The LG are saying that there are not enough pennies in the kitty as it is. To reduce the revenue on fuel by 'only' 20%, has to result in increases elsewhere.

Let's be honest; For the LG to simply keep prices the same (due to OPEC prices) will require a tax cut. And this still won't be acceptable (to us).

At the moment, companies and to a lesser extent, individuals are really cheesed at the cost of fuel. Imagine if it bit you in the wallet regardless of whether you use a car or not! Then we'll see the army out!

Please don't imagine for one moment that I'm in support of high fuel prices! That's just daft! But I think we should all be aware of what could happen if we are successful.

What do you think?

[White Van Man]

The trouble is that the tax is around 75% (not sure of the exact figure) so this means that for every dollar the oil companies increase their prices, the price at the pump goes up $1.75 - the goverment are raking it in when the oil companies increase their prices - they're never gonna do anything about that unless the point is made.

And anyway, this increased cost is passed indirectly to the consumer in the High Street, so I don't see that it'd make a huge difference anyway. And why should this tax be on fuel anyway ? I could understand the taxes raised going to public transport, road maintenece or enviromental schemes, but why does it just go into the central goverment coffers ?

I think that they should reduce fuel tax to a sensible level, and then increase the higher band of income tax to 45p in the pound. Maybe even introduce a 35p band too for medium earners ?

[Sarah]

All the petrol station in West Wales have run out of petrol, the police had to be called to two local garages because of people fighting for the last drops of petrol and one garage would only give you £10 pounds of petrol at a time until they ran out. The local Ambulance service has stopped doing non-emergency calls.

Luckily I live in town so can walk to work, the shops and the hospital, but if I want to go any where else, like Silverstone or even the next town I can't. I can't even use public transport because they can't get diesel for the buses.

I agree with the principle of the protests but it is affecting my family quite a bit and we are lucky living in a town, most people in this area live in small villages with no shops and with no way of getting to town when the food runs out they have no way of getting more.

[SL]

What has not been mentioned, nor has the Goverment. Due to the OPEC price hikes over the past 6 months the percentage rate increase on the tax & duty payable on fuel has meant that the Goverment will get a windfall of £4 billion, this will increase by £330 million for every $1 rise in oil barrel prices. Oil has increased from $22 to $34 per barrel since the budget. Mr Brown could cut 8p per litre (36p per gallon) without increasing other taxes. He is also gaining from extra income from the North Sea oil price increases.

All figures are from the Sunday Times.

Simon

[Sparky]

I just read a report on http://news.bbc.co.uk/ that some garages are charging higher prices (£1.20 a litre!) so that "... they can add their support to the campaign"

There's a report of one in Derby charging £1.99 PER LITRE!! The ten pound gallon has arrived!!

Yeah Right!! Like lining their pockets and 'supply and demand' have nothing to do with it!?

Got a link for you all. Look at this...

http://www.boycott-the-pumps.com/

Check out the forum... er.. but don't stay too long! Right Admins!?

[SL]

The police were called to the Derby garage as apparently the owner was about to get lynched. The BBC quoted £11 per gallon, but that might be the BBC's sums, they are only reporters after all. Maybe the garage owners seeing no income for maybe a few months are making the most of it, Gordon Brown has stated no change in tax rates until the budget.

It was also all blamed onto the general public, us that is, for panic buying. It will be interesting to see how many mum's make the school run and how many are queing for a bus in the morning rather that walk or cycle the often short distance to school or work.

Does anyone know if Silverstone, Goodwood etc have seperate fuel supplies ? If not I might have a few Goodwodd tickets available.

Me ? I'll be driving as it is to far to walk, (I'm also lazy!) I don't own a bike and the bus means about a 2 hour journey involving 3 buses.

Simon

[bella]

i've got a full tankl today, so i'm ok for silverstone. i'm hitching a lift with my olds to work for the rest of this week. the people at work won't last 2 days. there are no buses, and if you think they're getting on their bikes...

will silverstone go ahead? this is my question.....

[Minardi fan]

At Silverstone tonight the people we spoke to were not sure if it would go ahead or not, although the night-light rigging was being put up this afternoon.

[MichaelC]

Well I'm here in deepest darkest Gloucestershire. There's only one petrol station in the county that's confirmed to be selling Unleaded, but when you hear "Unconfirmed Reports" that another station may have some, it's all getting a bit farcical.

This doesn't mean however, that I don't support the idea. I think it's a very good thing, and I hope it keeps going for another week or more until the Government has no options left but to cut the disgraceful amount of tax we pay on fuel.

For what it's worth, I just filled up my 306 Turbo Diesel at Sainsbury's. They only have diesel left, but you can have as much as you want. My little car is a bit on the economical side, so that tank of fuel could last upto 10 days if I don't drive like Colin McRae. So I'm OK for a while yet

[Sparky]

I would like to think that this crusade would only take a week to 10 days, but I suspect Tony Blah is likely to stick to his guns on this one.

"We will not alter government policy on petrol through blockades" - Tony Blair

I can see this going on for about two months with neither side moving an inch. Meanwhile, the army will be called out, individual cars will be targeted and their tanks drained (something which has already started) and tempers will fray.

Late on Monday the Privy Council and the Queen approved the use by the government of emergency powers to ensure the flow of fuel to "priority users" such as health services, schools and public transport. - BBC News online

Better hold on guys, this could get rough.

[SNH]

If you miss work, business, money thru truck drivers blocking a road, who can you sue for loss of income?

Also, surely no-one would cut up rough if fuel was sent to medical, fire, etc?

[TimD]

Not a good morning.

Last night, at 10.30, I was actually on a Texaco forecourt when the pumps ran dry.

This morning, I tried eight petrol stations in the Harrow/Wembley/Ruislip area. All were bereft of unleaded fuel. I finally gave up in Ickenham having joined a queue of suitably unleaded looking cars, only to find another dry petrol station.

I then spent 20 minutes sitting behind a moron owner of a BMW Z3 sports car, as he religiously squeezed drops of 4-star down the fuel filler of his unleaded-only six month old car.

That will be a £1700 bill when he finds out his catalytic converter and ECU don't work anymore.

I have two-thirds of a tank of fuel left. Hopefully this will see me to Goodwood and back. If not, I will be the little creature hitching a lift on the A3 to London on Sunday night.

[Sparky]

Sorry to hear about your experiences, Tim.

I managed to fill up with Superplus this morning, but only 'cos I came into the garage the back way and used the wrong pump! Oops. Coulda got arrested!

I might not make it to Silverstone either. Not just because of my personal fuel situation, but because my work depends on people bringing their cars to me to work on 'em, and they ain't!! I've had three cancellations this week already. Sorry, I won't have the funds, guys...



SNH, "Also, surely no-one would cut up rough if fuel was sent to medical, fire, etc?" What I meant by this is that the Armed Forces and the Green Goddesses will soon be on the streets, ensuring juice for emergency vehicles only.

I wouldn't mind betting that WVM's "I'd not be surprised to see the army mobilised." will mean troops at filling station hot spots. That is to say, any stations that have any fuel left will soon need assistance to ensure that Mr and Mrs J. Public only get their fiver's worth.

By the way, Mrs Sparky went shopping this morning and was only permitted to buy two loaves of bread and four pints of milk. Panic buying? Never!

[White Van Man]

It took me best part of three hours to get to Highbury this morning - a one hour journey normally - and 1.5 hours of that was queuing on the A1 to get past one single fuel station which did have fuel (and a bloody great queue!!)

I must say that almost every single forecourt I drove past today was completely closed, or were without Unleaded and Diesel.

Tommorrow i'll be heading down to Tunbridge Wells - all in around 200 miles round trip - i've got a quarter of a tankj left... if I can't get any on the road, then i'm buggered!

Tim, I can assure you that there was petrol available in your area this afternoon - it's Diesel which has run dry right now. Try the garage on the A40 next to the drive thru McDonalds (the Target roundabout ?) Though this information may now be outdated as Sky News are now reporting that London is now totally dry - ALL stocks of fuel are exhausted.

I reckon that all our vehicles will be parked up by Thursday evening - and head office are considering whether we should send every one of the group's vehicles to help the blockades!

With regards to the emergency services - the blockadees (is that a word ? ) are freely letting deliveries leave the refinieries if they can be demonstrated to be on 'humanitarian' deliveries - ie to ambulance, fire or police stations, schools, etc., etc. It's simply forecourt sales which they are blocking.

I am delighted to say that the public seem to be remaining 100% behind the campaign - keep it up guys - you're doing a brilliant job.

[TimD]

Well, I'm not sure that makes me feel better, but I wouldn't have gone as far as the Target anyway. Altogether that would have been a six or seven mile round trip for me, and I think (pray) that what I've still got will suffice for the weekend. I couldn't risk the precious juice on another potentially futile expedition.

I went to the station to enquire about a weekly season ticket for a commute from Harrow to Slough. I was advised not to purchase one as Thames Trains could not guarantee diesel supplies after Saturday.

On the way back, I passed the Texaco station outside the Harrow Civic Centre.

There was a police cordon around it, and two burly coppers doing the "it's all over, there's nothing to see" routine.

Wonder what happened....

[Marshal]

Like you Tim I'm worried about making Goodwood this weekend, from Bristol I can currently make it there, but not back. Also, just been listening to the radio and Tony said "Fuel companies will be making more effort to deliver fuel and the situation wil start returning to normal within the next 24 hours".

I agree with the sentiment WVM, but I can't help feel this is begining to get out of hand.