How similar were the Jag XJR 14 and the Porsche WSC 95?

H16 · 10 Jan 2002, 10:10 (Ref:196439)

During the 24 hours of Le Mans, it was mentioned by Greg Kreemer that the 1996 and 1997 Porsche victories came in Jags that were "modified up a little bit". Of course I know that the XJR 14 became the Mazda then later the Porsche WSC 95, but exactly how similar was the car that won the World Sportscar Championship in 1991 and the one that actually hit the track in 1995 (raced in 1996-98)?

I mean, apart from the obvious, the cut off roof and the Porsche GT1 style rear wing.

Banks · 10 Jan 2002, 13:17 (Ref:196522)

I think you will find that apart from the tub everything was completely new - heavily worked on by Porsche / Joest and TWR
(in other words - not the same car at all!)

paulzinho · 10 Jan 2002, 15:06 (Ref:196571)

Is it actually allowed to let a Jaguar become a Mazda then a Porsche?

**Aysedasi** · 10 Jan 2002, 18:30 (Ref:196674)

Forgive the simplistic answer Paul, but I guess it must be!

I think it's fair to say that the course of sportscar history is positively littered with examples of cars which have been reworked, rebadged, reengined or whatever.

paulzinho · 10 Jan 2002, 19:09 (Ref:196702)

I just thought it was a bit weird!!!!

**Aysedasi** · 10 Jan 2002, 22:21 (Ref:196804)

Well, aren't we all?!!

cybersdorf · 12 Jan 2002, 22:07 (Ref:197667)

Quote:

Originally posted by paulzinho
Is it actually allowed to let a Jaguar become a Mazda then a Porsche?

Yes it is, because it is a prototype (no minimum no. of cars necessary).

Another example of a car that underwent a change of identity is a Nissan chassis that later was bought by SARD and turned into a Toyota. I believe it ran at Le Mans in both guises.

paulzinho · 12 Jan 2002, 22:15 (Ref:197676)

I would have thought that the first company would get a bit p****D off if another company used their chassis unless they got a lot of money!!

cybersdorf · 12 Jan 2002, 22:21 (Ref:197687)

Quote:

Originally posted by paulzinho
I would have thought that the first company would get a bit p****D off if another company used their chassis unless they got a lot of money!!

TWR probably did get a lot of money!

I don't know what the legal situation was but it seems that TWR owned the rights to the chassis (they also sold one to Mazda) so Jag had no say in that.

H16 · 13 Jan 2002, 09:54 (Ref:197870)

I suppose that the car entered as a "Chrysler LMP" might be a similar stituation? They seem to have no problem calling it Dallara in Grand Am and at Le Mans next year.

cybersdorf · 13 Jan 2002, 10:57 (Ref:197898)

Quote:

Originally posted by H16
I suppose that the car entered as a "Chrysler LMP" might be a similar stituation? They seem to have no problem calling it Dallara in Grand Am and at Le Mans next year.

...because Chrysler merely supplied the engine, yes.

H16 · 13 Jan 2002, 12:15 (Ref:197954)

Similar to the Jag. I think that people forget that TWR built most of the Jags (Group 44 aside), and really in 1991, you had a TWR XJR 14 with a Ford Cosworth in the back of it. Not a lot of Jaguar there.

Sid The Manager · 14 Jan 2002, 12:44 (Ref:198487)

maybe my memory playing tricks, but isn't the Bentley actually the roofed version of the Audi R8 rebadged and re-engined?
Certainly RTN who build the car also build Audi racing engines.

Of course the fact that Bentley and Audi are both of VW group makes this a bit easier.

**Aysedasi** · 14 Jan 2002, 13:00 (Ref:198496)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf
Another example of a car that underwent a change of identity is a Nissan chassis that later was bought by SARD and turned into a Toyota. I believe it ran at Le Mans in both guises.

Well, I didn't know that - you learn something every day! Any more info about this, Cy?

cybersdorf · 14 Jan 2002, 13:08 (Ref:198501)

Quote:

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Well, I didn't know that - you learn something every day! Any more info about this, Cy?

Only that Roland Ratzenberger drove it during his time with SARD. It may well have been the '94 car but I am speculating here.

Zero Signal · 20 Jan 2002, 03:20 (Ref:201556)

The Bentley has no Audi components in it ar all, save for the engine. I believe the Speed 8 was designed by the same person who designed the 1999 Audi R8C, so there's bound to be some similarity in it's appearence, but it's a totally different car. There is no relation whatsoever to any of Audi's cars from the last few years.

Es Nes · 20 Jan 2002, 07:23 (Ref:201578)

correct ... the bentley only has the audi block. the rest of the rear end was down graded ... err ... upgraded from the audi parts. they are using a x-trac gear box instead of the one the r8 uses ... changing that rear end was a huge mistake imhp

H16 · 20 Jan 2002, 10:24 (Ref:201608)

I like the Benetley as much as the next person but I think the critics have also been talking about the ORGINS of the car rather than the PARTS that were used.

OK, the car is 100% new from the ground up aside from the engine, but it is done by the same team that did the R8C in 1999. Green paint VS silver paint.

Abs · 20 Jan 2002, 10:35 (Ref:201615)

Looking back I think you'll find that the Bentley looks more like the GT-One of Toyota, yes the profile of the Bentley is similar to the R8C but there again aren't more and more of the cars looking alike now??

Just look how the BMW (#1), Ferrari (#3) and the Porsche (#8) all looked in '98.

Banks · 20 Jan 2002, 14:41 (Ref:201687)

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Sard was based around the Toyota MR2 , it had a Lexus engine and Porsche transmission - where does the Nissan link come from?

jimclark · 20 Jan 2002, 15:41 (Ref:201700)

H-16 - "OK, the car is 100% new from the ground up aside from the engine, but it is done by the same team that did the R8C in 1999."

Okay, Boeing, that "did" the 707 decades earlier, "did" the 777, though the people WERE different, still call it a Boeing. And why shouldn't they?

Names of designs are dictated by those that foot the bill...all the cars of Barnhard, Murray, Postelthwaite, etc. etc. were not called by their names... What was Ford about the original "Ford" Cosworth? Mercedes that was desingned by Ilmoor? etc. etc.? The name was called for by those that provided the $$$. In essence, and literally, these folks were employed by the nameholders, and that's that. Now, Ferrari........(although we could dicuss the 333...really a Ferrari?Where does Dallara fit into that one?)

H16 · 20 Jan 2002, 21:09 (Ref:201843)

Hey like I said, I really love the Bentley. It was far and away the best looking car in the field last year. But I am also a realist. Just because a car is 100% new doesn't mean it comes from someone else. Heck, the 1999 Benetton I recall was new "with the exception of wheel nuts", but you didn't see a name change there.

And the Bentley was at least part Audi funded. Remember when the rumors of the Bentley going away started, it was based around Bentley being asked to raise money for the team themselves.

Hey, I love the Bentley, but when its ran by the same people, funded (at very least in part) by the same people, and even has a few of the same drivers after two years, I have a hard time enriching in the rich motorsport history.

H16 · 20 Jan 2002, 21:32 (Ref:201851)

Just to add to my previous thought. I think the Bentley is a "fun" concept. A great looking coupe that is fast and futuristic. But I don't think it really has any historical attributes. Just like the Jaguar F1 program. It has nothing to do with the old Jag's in sports cars, and Jag has no history that I am aware of in Formula One. By the way, I don't think of the Jag F1 program as fun, but it is sad and depresing.

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