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Old 19 Sep 2012, 12:34 (Ref:3138448)   #26
Stones1987
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Good to see MTech Lite have bought a couple of cars though. With five cars sold good start for F4 so far. Will be interesting to see how it takes off in 2013.
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 12:37 (Ref:3138452)   #27
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Bound to fail, Matt James has given it a big thumbs up.
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 12:41 (Ref:3138459)   #28
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Good to see MTech Lite have bought a couple of cars though. With five cars sold good start for F4 so far. Will be interesting to see how it takes off in 2013.
Who are the other 2 cars out of interest?
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 15:46 (Ref:3138551)   #29
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Who are the other 2 cars out of interest?
5 cars sold and Mtech have bought 2 of them...... good to see your day job as a high flyer in finance enables you to subtract 2 from 5 and come up with.....2!!
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 16:18 (Ref:3138563)   #30
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5 cars sold and Mtech have bought 2 of them...... good to see your day job as a high flyer in finance enables you to subtract 2 from 5 and come up with.....2!!
Very good!! Formula4 website also says a young Ginettas driver has bought one !! So 2 + 1 surely still equals 4?
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 16:57 (Ref:3138574)   #31
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The Ginetta driver is Charlie Robertson who will be run by HHC
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 19:07 (Ref:3138627)   #32
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm really disappointed by this series, non adjustable dampers, spec racing and a focus on drivers not cars, also I have a feeling that it could be overpriced. This meant to be motor racing isn't it? not driver racing.

Japanese F4 on the other hand is awesome, you have to use a spec tub from Dome, there are some engine regs and a few safety related things are mandated, there is also a cap on the car sales price and all designs must be available for sale - then go for it design develop what you want.

See here - I think this is a better and cheaper approach to F4.
Dome on F4

Also have a look at the brochure for the car
JMIA Kit racer
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 20:23 (Ref:3138653)   #33
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Originally Posted by ss_collins View Post
I'm really disappointed by this series, non adjustable dampers, spec racing and a focus on drivers not cars, also I have a feeling that it could be overpriced. This meant to be motor racing isn't it? not driver racing.

Japanese F4 on the other hand is awesome, you have to use a spec tub from Dome, there are some engine regs and a few safety related things are mandated, there is also a cap on the car sales price and all designs must be available for sale - then go for it design develop what you want.

See here - I think this is a better and cheaper approach to F4.
Dome on F4

Also have a look at the brochure for the car
JMIA Kit racer
Holy crap! That "Moon Craft F20" looks brilliant! It's like a real X2010.
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Old 19 Sep 2012, 22:05 (Ref:3138696)   #34
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p261brm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridp261brm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Supposed to be budget racing, not if MSV are involved, forget the initial cost, it will be 'the extras' prancing girls, hub caps for transporter, flag poles etc etc, now somewhere at the back of the garage got the remains of a Vixen......
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 10:52 (Ref:3139025)   #35
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Flavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by ss_collins View Post
I'm really disappointed by this series, non adjustable dampers, spec racing and a focus on drivers not cars, also I have a feeling that it could be overpriced. This meant to be motor racing isn't it? not driver racing.

Japanese F4 on the other hand is awesome, you have to use a spec tub from Dome, there are some engine regs and a few safety related things are mandated, there is also a cap on the car sales price and all designs must be available for sale - then go for it design develop what you want.

See here - I think this is a better and cheaper approach to F4.
Dome on F4

Also have a look at the brochure for the car
JMIA Kit racer
THe JMIA have really got their act together haven't they? Great promotional stuff and a really good idea.

I think it's a done deal here in the UK though, with MSV and the BRDC.

I agree totally about the sealed dampers. It must save mere pennies but the one thing young drivers need to learn is that vital interface between chassis and track, damper settings are crucial to that. Especially as the wing/drag/ downforce settings will more than likely be very ineffective except at very high speed on these cars.

Nonetheless, my view is that the Formula Ford promoters have only themselves to blame with their consistent approach of ignoring the opinions of those who have been telling them for years that they were driving people out of the sport, not into it.

I hope F4 works, for the simple reason something has to be done to differentiate talent from bank balance or we'll face a future of nothing but pay drivers moving up to higher levels, which is pretty much where we are now.
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 11:12 (Ref:3139030)   #36
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It's about time Ford got a kick in the ass. They have gone the wrong way since 1993. That's nearly 20 years of ford shooting themselves in the foot. It's now time for them to p**s or get off the pot. But I can guarantee you they will do it again and put the final nail in the coffin. Maybe we will see a knee jerk reaction and they'll bolt on some wings

They have one chance to save formula ford and that's look at the ingredients that made FF what it was in the 60's-90's and go back there before we have formula 5. FORD ask yourself this question. Why do we still have a strong Kent ff1600 class?

All Palmer is doing is creating what he raced himself F4 = ff2000 and next F5 = ff1600. At leased we have someone in Palmer that can see the wood from the trees.
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 14:41 (Ref:3139132)   #37
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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I hope F4 works, for the simple reason something has to be done to differentiate talent from bank balance or we'll face a future of nothing but pay drivers moving up to higher levels, which is pretty much where we are now.
I think that F4 will have the opposite impact, lots of less talented rich kids filling the grid and hiring Carlin to run them. "Lads and Dads" who have a bit of mechanical nous and driving talent but not Carlin support or budget will stand no chance. Indeed is setting a car up and learning how to drive it as a machine not a key part of learning to be a good race driver? This series does not offer that when I clearly should.
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 15:34 (Ref:3139162)   #38
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I think that F4 will have the opposite impact, lots of less talented rich kids filling the grid and hiring Carlin to run them.
Now where have we seen that sort of thing before? Formula Palmer Audi . . .
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 15:36 (Ref:3139164)   #39
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DiamondJim should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Another driver announced today - Falco Wauer. not heard of him but seems he's driven lots of single seaters the past 12 months. Ironically, he raced and won in the (soon to be renamed) 750 F4 series this year!
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 17:42 (Ref:3139203)   #40
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Falco is a Norwegian/American on the short list for the Team USA scholarship scheme this year. He's 16 and has spent some time with CDR in their F Renault car. It's fair to say he found the jump from 750mc 'clubbie' racing to a more 'pro' level series a massive jump.
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 17:49 (Ref:3139206)   #41
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I'm really disappointed by this series, non adjustable dampers, spec racing and a focus on drivers not cars
Makes you wonder where the next generation of mechanics & engineers are going to come from as everything in the junior leagues moves towards spec & sealed units.
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 18:24 (Ref:3139224)   #42
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Exactly. Beyond Formula Vee and Formula Student there is little scope for designers and engineers to learn about this stuff
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 18:37 (Ref:3139228)   #43
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Exactly. Beyond Formula Vee and Formula Student there is little scope for designers and engineers to learn about this stuff
Actually there is Formula Ford (UK/Benelux/Netherlands/Scandanavia) but that has badly shot itself in the foot this year by trying to introduce an evolutionary new car into the marketplace at the wrong time.

Ironically I think originally they were hoping this car would be sanctioned by the FIA to become Formula 4. Best laid plans................
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Old 20 Sep 2012, 18:58 (Ref:3139235)   #44
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Makes you wonder where the next generation of mechanics & engineers are going to come from as everything in the junior leagues moves towards spec & sealed units.
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Exactly. Beyond Formula Vee and Formula Student there is little scope for designers and engineers to learn about this stuff
it's not just learning is it, it's going on to make a career of it. where are the career jobs, the small engineering companies? and it's not just motorsport either, the general engineering industry is struggling. there's nobody left to teach the welding, machining and small scale manufacturing skills either.

/end of the world
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Old 21 Sep 2012, 07:41 (Ref:3139499)   #45
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I live in hope that the powers that be get it right one of those days. Sadly F4 is not it. I keep going on about it but I am going to repeat myself.

We need an AFFORDABLE single seater championship. One that does not see cars from the 90s as the option because of rules on cockpit size, nor engines that change hands for crazy sums of money because there are good ones and bad ones. We need something that is attractive to engineering students, small race car companies and the young drivers. It has to be a free formula, perhaps with a standard spaceframe to Fia standards that can be built to a set design. Bodywork, and suspension should be free and there should be no castings allowed for adaptors or uprights because of cost. Simple brakes, steel wheels, and a modern production engine with a simple transaxle. In 1967 this formula worked and I think it could again. F5 anyone?

It is just a pity that those that "try" to make their living from the junior formula see spend, spend, spend as the only option. Please can we return to the days where talent on the design, engineering and driving side mattered.
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Old 21 Sep 2012, 13:07 (Ref:3139638)   #46
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Another team signs up to F4.....
http://www.formula4.com/news/lanan-r...mpionship.aspx
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Old 21 Sep 2012, 15:14 (Ref:3139665)   #47
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How can you say with dry eyes that lads and dads team have a chance with UNLIMITED testing? (Ben Anderson - Autosport)Off course the profi teams will find an advantage with lots of testing. And we all know testing = $$$$$$ So really another class diluting the pool.

Jaap
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Old 21 Sep 2012, 16:07 (Ref:3139673)   #48
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it's not just learning is it, it's going on to make a career of it. where are the career jobs, the small engineering companies? and it's not just motorsport either, the general engineering industry is struggling. there's nobody left to teach the welding, machining and small scale manufacturing skills either.

/end of the world
Drat I agree with Maria again. This is unusual. Its a serious problem though, we have lost Reynard, Ralt, March, TWR, Lola etc and there are not many left to build a car in the UK. Ok a tubular car is not as hard but still who is doing it? a few in Formula Vee and odds and sods everywhere else. F4 and series like it are nails in the coffin of British engineering talent.

JP should open it up - like what the Japanese have done
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Old 21 Sep 2012, 16:37 (Ref:3139680)   #49
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Originally Posted by ss_collins View Post
I'm really disappointed by this series, non adjustable dampers, spec racing and a focus on drivers not cars, also I have a feeling that it could be overpriced. This meant to be motor racing isn't it? not driver racing.

Japanese F4 on the other hand is awesome, you have to use a spec tub from Dome, there are some engine regs and a few safety related things are mandated, there is also a cap on the car sales price and all designs must be available for sale - then go for it design develop what you want.

See here - I think this is a better and cheaper approach to F4.
Dome on F4

Also have a look at the brochure for the car
JMIA Kit racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri View Post
THe JMIA have really got their act together haven't they? Great promotional stuff and a really good idea.

I think it's a done deal here in the UK though, with MSV and the BRDC.

I agree totally about the sealed dampers. It must save mere pennies but the one thing young drivers need to learn is that vital interface between chassis and track, damper settings are crucial to that. Especially as the wing/drag/ downforce settings will more than likely be very ineffective except at very high speed on these cars.

Nonetheless, my view is that the Formula Ford promoters have only themselves to blame with their consistent approach of ignoring the opinions of those who have been telling them for years that they were driving people out of the sport, not into it.

I hope F4 works, for the simple reason something has to be done to differentiate talent from bank balance or we'll face a future of nothing but pay drivers moving up to higher levels, which is pretty much where we are now.
The Japanese get a lot of things right when it comes to motorsport. It's a shame the rest of the world has no respect for what goes on in the land of the rising sun. There's something that motosport federations around the world can learn from the Japanese.
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Old 21 Sep 2012, 17:01 (Ref:3139683)   #50
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ivanalesi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Everybody can learn from the Japanese, they still tire battle in Super GT and it's the best *fair* tin-top racing in the world.
Still, let's give F4 little time to see how things go. If MSV says the budget with professional team can be 70k GBP, then let's see if it is truly like this and most importantly how fast or slow this car can go!
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