Brawn tells the truth

TheGreatJuan · 8 Jan 2003, 16:54 (Ref:467481)

Quote:

An intriguing comment by Mr.Brawn on ITV's F1 review 02....When asked after Austria 'Up until the line,you would surely say that Rubens had beaten Michael in a fair fight',he replied 'You can't say there was a fight between them...It was the team's decision whether or not they should fight and the team controlled who was in front,so it was because of the team that Rubens had led all the way'....

What do you make out of this?
Does it mean that the guy who leads at Ferrari is determined before the race? Does this mean that whenever Schumi leads is not because he beat Barri fair and square but that the Team arranged for it to look like that? I told you so

Red · 8 Jan 2003, 17:07 (Ref:467492)

Why don't you just give it a rest? It simply means what everyone (you aside) knew already. They are instructed not to race each other. Who gets a better qual possition will keep it untill instructed otherwise. That means Rubens got a pole and Schumacher did not even attempt to pass him.

ASCII Man · 8 Jan 2003, 17:10 (Ref:467496)

Yep, old news...

TheGreatJuan · 8 Jan 2003, 17:11 (Ref:467498)

Thank you for admiting that. When is Schumi going to beat his teammate fair and square? You and I (so far) agree that is the team that is doing the job for him, don't we?

Kex · 8 Jan 2003, 17:13 (Ref:467504)

Why must you persist with these threads? It remains very likely that the contractual situation at Ferrari will stay the same until Michael Schumacher retires.

ASCII Man · 8 Jan 2003, 17:13 (Ref:467505)

I can answer that quite simple: Never.
Not when Schumi is with Ferrari, as he stated a long time ago that Ferrari is the team where he would retire.

NiceGuyEddie · 8 Jan 2003, 17:19 (Ref:467509)

Schumacher has been beating Rubens fair and square on a regular base. You are a minority as far as you are still not convinced of Schumacher´s superiority over Rubens. Quite sad when people fail to accept the obvious and then go on and on about it too....

Red · 8 Jan 2003, 17:20 (Ref:467512)

Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreatJuan
Thank you for admiting that. When is Schumi going to beat his teammate fair and square? You and I (so far) agree that is the team that is doing the job for him, don't we?

How many times did Rubens Barrichello concede position in last 3 seasons? 2 times: Austria 2001 and Austria 2002. Try to concentrate, it's not that difficult to answer you own question: it is easy to suspect that in every other occasion when Schumacher finished the race ahead him he beat him fair and square. Plus. Schumacher paid his debts, and with interest too. Both to Irvine and Barrichello. Now just shut up.

Inigo Montoya · 8 Jan 2003, 17:21 (Ref:467513)

OMG! Another thread on this?! Moderators? Please help!

ASCII Man · 8 Jan 2003, 17:29 (Ref:467516)

Well, he is fairly new to this forum so he might not have known that these 'Schumi doesn't race his teammate' & 'Ferrari teamorders' discussions have been going on for ages here...

TheGreatJuan · 8 Jan 2003, 17:31 (Ref:467518)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
How many times did Rubens Barrichello concede position in last 3 seasons? 2 times: Austria 2001 and Austria 2002. Try to concentrate, it's not that difficult to answer you own question: it is easy to suspect that in every other occasion when Schumacher finished the race ahead him he beat him fair and square. Plus. Schumacher paid his debts, and with interest too. Both to Irvine and Barrichello. Now just shut up.

That is not the point. The point is that Brawn decides who and how will lead the race and who and when will win the race. If it is true for Austria then it is true for all the times when Schumi was in the lead. The only difference (in most of the cases) was that he did not order Schumi to move over for Barri.

ASCII Man · 8 Jan 2003, 17:33 (Ref:467522)

Ferrari decided the outcome of the races when Pironi and Gilles were racing too, y'know.
Although it didn't end up exactly the way Gilles and Ferrari wanted on one occasion... (Monza '82 or Imola '82?)

I think that it was like this even in the early days.

Liz · 8 Jan 2003, 17:37 (Ref:467533)

And they both ended up dead as a result, which at least in one case was a direct result. Apparently Ferrari never learns ...

However, I agree, this is tantamount to being shocked that the Iraqis would lie about having weapons of mass destruction. Only a person who lives in a cave could have missed this "story" ...

Red · 8 Jan 2003, 17:37 (Ref:467534)

Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreatJuan
The point is that Brawn decides who and how will lead the race and who and when will win the race.

Yes, he decides. Decides. Can you tell the meaning of this word? He gathered information, analyzed the possibilities and decides what's best for them. Not because he had a vision in his last night's dream.

PS: He does not decide who leads the race; that's what the quallifying session does best.

PS2: You certainly did not understand what Ross wanted to say: he said that they told Schumacher not to attack Rubens. He said that if they did NOT decide who leads the race, most probably Schumacher would have succesfully attacked Rubens. That is he decided who 'leads' the race, but it was a decision against Michael Schumacher.

PS3:

Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreatJuan
If it is true for Austria then it is true for all the times when Schumi was in the lead.

And how exactly does Ross Brawn convince McLaren, Williams plus the other guys that 'he' is the one who decides who and how leads the race?

JohnSSC · 8 Jan 2003, 17:40 (Ref:467541)

I will say first that I am as guilty as the rest on this point, but if you really want to give this type of thread a rest, don't respond! Vote with your feet and go on to a different topic.

Although the F1rejects site has an interesting article about Ivan Capelli's season at Ferrari in '92. Interesting comments about the team politics that came into play during that eminently forgetable season (for Ferrari).

Red · 8 Jan 2003, 17:41 (Ref:467543)

Thanks John!

TheGreatJuan · 8 Jan 2003, 17:44 (Ref:467547)

Correct me if I am wrong. Didn't Schumi spun out and looked silly while attacking Barri? What does it make you think he would have been succesfull in Austria?

If Brawn tells schumi not to attack then it must be clear (as it happened many times) that he also ask Barri not to attack or even to slow down the guy behind to help Schumi. Taking all of that in consideration would not you say that half of the job is already done for schumi? Can you honestly say that Yoong would not pile up a record number of victories under such conditions?

Red · 8 Jan 2003, 17:45 (Ref:467550)

Darn, and I said to myself not to reply.

You are wrong.

TheGreatJuan · 8 Jan 2003, 17:50 (Ref:467556)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Darn, and I said to myself not to reply.

You are wrong.

Let me provide with the link and picture that shows Schumi out of the track after trying to attack Barri.

JohnSSC · 8 Jan 2003, 17:51 (Ref:467561)

It is only flamebait, it is only flamebait...

I should like to point out that ANY wins for Yoong would be a "record number."

Armco Bender · 8 Jan 2003, 17:51 (Ref:467562)

Shock,Horror, Team Orders,been part of motor racing since the first race was ever held.

**Bononi** · 8 Jan 2003, 18:15 (Ref:467597)

Please people read this :Posting etiquette

This subject has been discussed more than enough. There is nothing more to add to this discussion. There are people that agree and others that don't. Nobody will change their opinions, no matter what it is.

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