The "Good Old Days" were they?

[Robert Ryan]

I am not nostalgic about the "Good Old days", just get annoyed at what might have been.
Australian Road Racing could be even more diverse and interesting if certain developments had been not nipped in the bud.
Ok, here are some of my favourites, maybe you could add some other peeves. about the "Good Old Days"
(1) Why did Sports Sedans lose their top billing? Imagine what they would have been now, if they were still a major championship? One interesting fact, spaceframes were used in Sports Sedans 13 yrs before they were tried by Roush in the US Trans Am series in 1983.
(2) Remember all those local manufacturers of openwheelers? Elfin, Mawer,Cheetah, Elwyn, Birrana etc. They provided relatively cheap cars that were on par and better than imported ones.
(3) Repco won a world Championship, developed an Indy engine that finished 9th in the 1969 500. If they had backing from a major Australian Company, we could have been looking at an Australian Cosworth.
(4) On a similar theme: Merv Waggots 2 litre powered Mildren won the Macau GP with Kevin Bartlett driving. Even in its early developement it hadmore torque en, than the 2 litre Cosworth. Why was it not developed afterMerv died in a plane accident? Even as a tribute to him?
(5) what if Bob Jane's NASCAR experiment, had established itself in Sydney(a paved oval track was planned for Parramatta Speedway)on an oval and roadcourses?(Eastern Creek and Oran Park)

[Aarrgh8]

Excellent post, Robert. I AM nostalgic about the past, but I don't dwell on it. I have many memories, but I'm more interested in the present - and the future. 'Looking forward, looking back' as Slim sang.

1) I don't know that Sports Sedans ever had top billing. They certainly had top crowd support from their inception in the late 60s through to the 90s. They had their moments with top teams and sponsors supporting them in the 80s, but generally, were always a supporting class. Pity. I spent too much time on the things, from lightweight Minis through to space-framed, mainly Chev powered beasts with all sorts of body shapes, to be objective.

2) Sure do. Rennmax, Bowin, and many more as well. Anyone know what Bob Brittain and John Joyce are doing now? It could be a case of too many makers chasing a too-small market. Also, it became easier to buy a few-years-old Lotus or similar, rather than place your faith in a small local manufacturer.

3) I don't know what caused that project to stall. Phil Irving was getting old when the Repco V8 was winning. Maybe there was no-one following him with the vision and the drive to keep Repco Engines keeping pace. Also, general apathy from Australian companies. We're very good at the apathy thing. Mind you, there were some huge efforts from various makers that li'l Repco couldn't match. Remember BRM's H16? I think Lotus ran one - and won, with Jim Clark driving, as well as the BRM works cars with Jackie Stewart and Pete Arundell driving.

4) A great effort on a miniscule budget. After Merv died, I think the apathy thing hit again. I don't really know. I remember building a few engines, and going up to Mayvic Street Greenacre and talking to Merv (and Ken, before he started up his own business down the road at Belmore) about cam profiles. Very good people.

5) I love oval track racing, especially Sprintcar racing. I have owned and run a winning Sprintcar team for some years. I just don't think enough people share my enthusiasm. There were problems with the Parramatta deal on a number of fronts. I could ramble on for pages, but I won't. If you're interested, I could tell you the whole story. It's quite intriguing. Sid Hopping, the man who originally established and built PCR is a good friend of mine. He could tell you even more.

I don't get annoyed, but I do wonder about what might have been. Thanks for stirring my memories along. Are things better today? Yes - and no. Mainly YES - and NO.

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Aarrgh8
I don't get annoyed, but I do wonder about what might have been. Thanks for stirring my memories along. Are things better today? Yes - and no. Mainly YES - and NO.

Did you learn your literary trade from Sir Humphrey Appleby by any chance

I do agree, some things are better, others arent. Same as anything in our society... you look back at how things used to be, with domestic manufacturers of anything and everything, and now you struggle to buy much from the local makers. From electrical, cars, shoes, clothing... its all goooooooooonnnnnneeeeee to places not of this country.

That is as sad as the other you discuss, and perhaps has similar causes

[Morris 1100]

Just a couple of comments...
(2) I think Britto is still working on cars in his workshop near Amaroo, he was doing a bit of work on historics.
John Joyce turned his Bowin company into one of the best gas heater companies around, he died about two years ago.

(3) Repco sacked Phil Irving in 1966 before the Brabham team won the championship and Repco replaced him with John Judd. The 67 motor was an improved 66 motor (new heads and block) and it won again. The 68 four cam engine was all new and had a couple of problems that could not be solved before Repco lost interest in the whole project and pulled the pin.

(4) Waggot built the 2 litre for a new formula that was supposed to replace the 2.5 formula in 1970. Then CAMS did a backflip and replaced the 2.5 litres with F5000 (the first years of F5000 were a combined class of 2 litre/2.5 litre/F5000). Merv was disgusted with the whole thing and gave up on the engine. Merv died in a plane crash about 10 years later, a long time after he had given up on circuit racing because of CAMS stupidity.

[Aarrgh8]

Thank you, David. At least my answer to my own question was a balanced answer.

Thanks 1100, for the news on Bob Brittain. As I live a few minutes from Amaroo, and drive past there twice a day, I'll call in. Bit embarrassing asking about him when he's so near by. Back when I knew him, he lived at Croydon Park.

[Chucky]

My two cents;

1)Yes, Sports Sedans could have developed a bit better. Given some better organisation at key points in time, it might have become a cross between V8SC, NASCAR, TRANSAM and GT sports cars.

2)Local manufacturers are still around. Mike does pretty good with his Spectrum FFord's in what is an ultra competitive market. Elfin are still making one of the best Super Seven replicas around and may do very well out of the new Holden deal with the Streamliner, et al. I think that the number of manufacturers is more in tune with the size of the market today than it was. I would still love to see Spectrum take a couple of FFords to the Festival. Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen so long as they continue to build and race them to the local "post-historic" rule book that is Kent.

3)Repco were a major company at the time and could have made a go of it. The loss of the Repco engine program was just another stuff up among many perpetrated by the bungling management structure over many years.

4)Merv's engine should have gone on, agreed.

5)What if? Could it have supplanted the V8's of today? Maybe.

[275 GTB-4]

Nice post - making people think for a change and forget the infighting K-rap that purveys the current scene including V8 Supercars today.

The answer to your question is YES, the good old days certainly were good with a capital G

[Morris 1100]

Originally posted by Aarrgh8
Thanks 1100, for the news on Bob Brittain. As I live a few minutes from Amaroo, and drive past there twice a day, I'll call in. Bit embarrassing asking about him when he's so near by. Back when I knew him, he lived at Croydon Park.

From what I have heard, his place was about 2 km from Amaroo but I am not sure of the road.

[Robert Ryan]

Aaargh8, I worked with the actual builder of Merv's Engine. John Alexander, who was a real speedcar talent in his earlier days.
I should have titled this post" The Good Old Days:What could have been?"
Chucky:Yes Sports Sedans could have evolved into an Antipodean Trans Am..they were evolving that way anyway.
Who knows maybe an Elfin /Birrana with
a Repco 3 Litre engine could have been sitting on the Albert Park Grid. We will never know now.
Another reason I did this post, was to make fans aware of the past and how some "New" innovations in Motorpsort have been tried before. Knowing the past helps us not to try and repeat the mistakes of a previous era.

[Aarrgh8]

Thanks for stirring a few of us along. Johnny Alexander? I crewed for Peter Bowland (NSW #4). Aaaaaaah. Speedway Royale on Saturday night. (Wipes misty eyes)

I won't get tooo nostalgic, but I must say I enjoy threads like this more than the stuff about what a loser Rick Kelly is for not seeing that yellow flag.

[Robert Ryan]

Aaargh8, I had the priviledge of collating his old Racing Album. He also won some Stockcar titles, in a "tank". His career was ended by a horrific crash in a Speedcar. Later on he became a TAFE teacher and now has retired living in Queensland.
Another little gripe, why didnt anyone build a competitive local version of the Offy? Johnny Stewart was on the right track with a 2.5 litre Climax engine. Unfortunately the local crew did not have the budget to develop it for Speedway.

[thunder road]

'CAM's, had a lot to do with the lack of growth in 'sports sedans', they just didn't want a class of hybred race cars ( perhas to hard to POLICE!!!), not at all 'british', 'flares ' they thought was something that should have stayed in the 'fashion' industry, the 'white ' dust coats and arm bands (KING FOR A DAY!),I was involved in a top level team, with a great budget, so trust me when I say they went after us!!!but the best remark was from a 'Italian' gentleman,at a Sandown meeting , was "hey!, youse a keep racing the big v8,it sounds a great in the stands,not like those '****ty' rotarys, that basically sumed up the 'passion' for the'sports sedans', also anybody could build one/parity, who ever had herd of 'that' word...........keep the thread rolling

[Aarrgh8]

Hedley McGee worked pretty hard on his own injection units, and twin-cam heads. It was just too small a market.

Thunder, you've got a point there. I remember all the silly rules about sponsor's names being 2" high and 24" long. How we've progressed in that area! The cars were too hard to police. Still, policing was needed. I remember Lakis Manticas' Buckle Mini. One flimsy door of (approx) 2mm fibreglass with a Lexan window, with nothing between Lakis and a hit. Door held shut by a little lock you could buy from a hardware store for about $0.76. Racing against various Falcon V8s, etc, Lakis is lucky that nothing hit that door.

[Robert Ryan]

Arrgh8, said "apathy" was a very common attitude in Australia. The attitude was "How can we hope to do that we are a country of X number of people" "Well they do not do that overseas, it is just a peculiar Australian thing". That attitude is still part of our Culture, but very much reduced. The problem in Australian racing, is that local fans do not see the intrinsic worth of some of the things that are done here. "Everything is bigger and better overseas" which is in quite a few cases totally false.

[Aarrgh8]

Originally posted by Robert Ryan
Another little gripe, why didnt anyone build a competitive local version of the Offy? Johnny Stewart was on the right track with a 2.5 litre Climax engine. Unfortunately the local crew did not have the budget to develop it for Speedway.

I remember the 2.5 Climax thing well. It was Ron Hodgson's idea. He had John Sheppard install and sort it in a local Midget frame. Far too much torque for the Sydney Showground sandy surface. Still, Johnny Stewart handled it well. It had the very attractive Speedway-type name of 'Honey Lamb'. Castrol colours with the Stewart tartan stripe.

Years later, I was watching a program on ABC2 about people living in caravan parks. There was this old guy who featured on it quite a bit. A bit shaky and nervous, he said that he used to race Speedway. That caught my attention. It was Johnny Stewart. He'd become an alcoholic. (JS always enjoyed a drink, but not quite to this extent.) He'd fallen on hard times. Apparently, working as a deck-hand on a ferry, in a docking incident, he'd copped a whack to the head. I still remember him saying "Some people might remember me." Remember him! A legend who played to crowds of 25,000 on a regular basis.

He died not long afterwards. I remember the day of his funeral at Northern Suburbs Crematorium. I didn't make it.

I digress.

[aj_308]

help me out those that were there, i thought sports sedans died out because they were, at the end, fibreglass bodyshell covered F5000's. i read about them often in MRA, they look fantastic, but didn't they just out budget themselves?

[Aarrgh8]

All racing cars and drivers out-budget themselves. I don't think that was a primary cause of the demise of a great category of motor-sport. Maybe under-budgeted on the marketing and promotion side. Being objective, I also think that although the cars were impressive, the racing got a bit tentative. Heaps of grunt and machoism, but they started getting pretty tentative in corners. Just MHO, I could be wrong.

[aj_308]

i would have thought they would rocket through them, being open-wheeler based?

[Aarrgh8]

I'll stick my neck out here and say that most Sports Sedan drivers were car builders first, and drivers second. There were exceptions, of course.

[aj_308]

weren't most "drivers" back then? i thought SORF's were a relitively new thing?

[aj_308]

weren't most "drivers" back then? i thought SORF's were a reletively new thing?

[aj_308]

can you hear an echo? i still spelt it wrong..

[Robert Ryan]

The Sports Sedan catergory, needed a shift into a higher gear, with more corporate involvement(instead of smaller business..mainly their own backing). If the rules could be more extensive i.e. restricted innovation, some proper catergory management, we would have had a "Trans Am' or "JGTC" series.
Aj 308, they are still alive and well . About 25 cars were at the Eastern Creek Raceway last saturday and Sunday as part of the Premier series.

[aj_308]

sure, but they are so different now. not like the camaro's, chargers and the torana's anymore.

[Robert Ryan]

Aj 308, that is progress..just like "Touring Cars" have changed