More changes at Oulton Park

[Flat12-Aircool]

Jonathan's at it again, first Deer Leap now Druids...

http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/ou...sp?NewsID=2483

I don't think spectators could access the outside of Druids anyway, so not such a big loss?

[redshoes]

You couldn't get to the outside of Druid so as a spectator it makes no difference. There have been a number of fairly major offs there in recent years so hopefully drivers will see it as a positive change.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by redshoes

...it makes no difference.

It will make it easier, as there's more of a margin for error. But difficult to argue against it being anything other than a good thing.

As an aside, I was at Cadwell at the the weekend (streetluging, rather than driving) and they've moved the barrier on the right of the run into Mansfield back, say, 20 metres - a reaction to the Superbike support race fatality there last year, I guess.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by graeme

It will make it easier, as there's more of a margin for error.

More margin for error = more risk-taking = bigger incidents!

But difficult to argue against it being anything other than a good thing.

I believe the changes were made primarily in the interests of bike safety - having a bigger run-off removes the need for the hundred or so straw bales which had to be used to protect riders from possible impact with the tyre wall.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

Jonathan's at it again, first Deer Leap now Druids...

Just for the record, the changes at Druids, & many other changes which have been made, were made at the request of the governing bodies (MSA, ACU & MCRCB).

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by graeme

It will make it easier, as there's more of a margin for error. But difficult to argue against it being anything other than a good thing.

Which I think is what I said. The bit you missed out of my quote was "as a spectator" it makes no difference - i.e it hasn't changed where spectators can watch from.

Does mean the marshals will have further to run in the event of an accident though.

[mark_l]

So now when a driver drops 2 wheels into the gravel and needs a push the marshals will have further to run to the car and further to run back to safety, meaning the marshals are exposed to danger for longer on what is a limited visibility high speed corner.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by mark_l

So now when a driver drops 2 wheels into the gravel and needs a push the marshals will have further to run to the car and further to run back to safety, meaning the marshals are exposed to danger for longer on what is a limited visibility high speed corner.

I'll reserve judgement until I've actually worked the post, but on the face of it your assessment seems spot-on, although I'd take a slightly different approach. It means that a bigger gap in 'traffic' will be needed to allow marshals to get to a car, attempt to push it out & return to a place of safety. However, let's try it before we condemn it!

[Ian Sowman]

Ultimately, there will always be a trade off of improving driver safety by pushing barriers back (where needed) at the possible 'cost' of ready access for marshals. It can be managed, but not completely avoided...

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

I'll reserve judgement until I've actually worked the post, but on the face of it your assessment seems spot-on, although I'd take a slightly different approach. It means that a bigger gap in 'traffic' will be needed to allow marshals to get to a car, attempt to push it out & return to a place of safety. However, let's try it before we condemn it!

I would like to know where you are going to find a big enough gap in traffic when it is Formula Fords on the Fosters circuit.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by mark_l

I would like to know where you are going to find a big enough gap in traffic when it is Formula Fords on the Fosters circuit.

As I said, let's not pre-judge; real problems are usually nothing like as bad as imaginary ones!

[Biff]

There's no doubt we all want to be safe, but I always feel that circuits need a corner like Druids. Yes it hurts when you get it wrong and hit the barrier, even more if you're nudged there by someone else.

Corners like Druids though provide an 'edge', its dangerous, but only if you are going too quickly or if you get it wrong, then there is a penalty to pay. That is always in your mind and it can make the difference between the front row and the third row.

OK there is still Island Bend at Oulton and Old Hall to a degree. Knicker Brook used to be there but is no more. No doubt the sanitisation of tracks will continue at the behest of Mr Health & Safety and the compensation lobby, but the place will be less because of it.

Spectators, drivers, marshalls, everybody knows the reputation some corners have, and when drivers are quick through them it means something. Druids at Oulton will now fade into the 'I remember when' archive, and it will become just another 'Luffield' as opposed to a 'Woodcote'.

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by Biff

There's no doubt we all want to be safe, but I always feel that circuits need a corner like Druids. Yes it hurts when you get it wrong and hit the barrier, even more if you're nudged there by someone else.

Corners like Druids though provide an 'edge', its dangerous, but only if you are going too quickly or if you get it wrong, then there is a penalty to pay. That is always in your mind and it can make the difference between the front row and the third row.

OK there is still Island Bend at Oulton and Old Hall to a degree. Knicker Brook used to be there but is no more. No doubt the sanitisation of tracks will continue at the behest of Mr Health & Safety and the compensation lobby, but the place will be less because of it.

Spectators, drivers, marshalls, everybody knows the reputation some corners have, and when drivers are quick through them it means something. Druids at Oulton will now fade into the 'I remember when' archive, and it will become just another 'Luffield' as opposed to a 'Woodcote'.

Spot On!!!!!!

Couldnot have put it any better myself.

[MikeM]

I'm not so sure yet - I drove the track on the marshals training day (not at high speed I accept) and I didn't feel it made such a big affect - it might not be too bad but it will take a race meeting to find out.

I'm more concerned that the gravel still comes to the edge of the track so if someone spins and drops their back wheels in - it's a long run for marshals. An "Astroturf" strip along the kerb might have helped?

[Hepatic]

true, but likewise that could lead to the kind of situation like we have at Silverstone, when drivers going thru Copse use more of the "track" than they should. In effect the usable part of the track gets widened, speeds are faster and we have bigger accidents which is what they are trying to stop.

It's a tough one to deal with, but maybe a much shallower front to the gravel about (say about 10ft of the front edge) then getting deeper as it approaches the tyres would be better? Doesn't invite drivers to use more than they should, but likewise minor spills shouldn't need us to go to the car. As Dave said, i'll wait until i work that post before making any judgements.

[graeme]

Drivers DO use the astroturf through Deer Leap, which annoys me - although it's not quite as bad as the tarmac runoff at Copse. Perhaps kerb, 5 yards of grass (drivers really don't like using grass) then gravel is the answer (actually, I say bring back catch fencing )

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by graeme

Drivers DO use the astroturf through Deer Leap, which annoys me - although it's not quite as bad as the tarmac runoff at Copse.

Will the changes at Deer Leap encourage more use of the grass?

Perhaps kerb, 5 yards of grass (drivers really don't like using grass) then gravel is the answer (actually, I say bring back catch fencing )

That sounds about right to me - it would give the chance to recover from a mistake while still reducing the consequences of a big 'off'.

....of course, deliberate, persistent use of the grass should be penalised!

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Will the changes at Deer Leap encourage more use of the grass?

I don't think so - it's the inside of the corner, so you can't up it out by using it. However, like Druids, it moves the tightrope a lot closer to the ground - it used to feel very claustrophobic through there, especially in a pack - so I'd expect a few more liberties to be taken. And I think we'll see more drivers using the hatched area in front of the pitwall as they exit Deer Leap, which has always anoyed me - "it's not part of the race track!".

[Hepatic]

Neither is the grass but they still use it

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by graeme

.... And I think we'll see more drivers using the hatched area in front of the pitwall as they exit Deer Leap, which has always anoyed me - "it's not part of the race track!".

You can be penalised for going outside the white lines that mark the edge of the track, maybe the C of C should enforce this more frequently. That is what the black and white diagonal flag is for.