Jenson v Lewis what is the final verdict

[Kevin Cooke]

Ok so back at the end of 2009 when JB decided to join McLaren all the pundits said, mad, crazy, he'll be shown up, destroyed.

So what has happened, very interesting in my view.

1. Yes Lewis has been proven to be quicker on a given lap.
2. Over 3 seasons JB scored 672 points and Lewis scored 657
3. Lewis had 10 wins and JB 8 (9 really as Canada 2011 must be worth 2!!)
4. Lewis has moved on.
5. JB has the possibilty of having the car totally to his liking next year, I say possibility because Perez could prove quicker in testing and then McLaren would need to figure out who to back.

All in all I think JB has held is own and proven to be a class act.

Any other views?

Kevin

[TWRv12]

6. Jenson has the charisma and class of a champion. LH not so much lately

If McLaren develop a car more suited to JB, we know what he can do.

[Peter Mallett]

It is interesting; on seasonal stats Lewis wins 2:1 but on overall points Jenson wins. I think that may demonstrate that as equal team mates with differeng styles, there's not much difference in capabilities. Mishaps such as wheelnuts jamming, wheels falling off etc. are largely out of the driver's control so it would be unfair to cry that one or the other enjoyed better reliability in any particular season.

On the other hand Lewis is a more complete racer in terms of speed. But both of them can overtake and (I stand to be corrected) Jenson made more passing moves last season than any other driver, of course this could be explained by his generally lesser qualifying position. However he also proved that you can win if you have enough talent from lower grid positions.

On balance I doubt McLaren will miss Lewis as much as Lewis will miss McLaren, because Jenson, who is well known for getting a team "on side" will, I feel, up his game next year.

[nicanary]

I don't have a "favourite" driver, and can watch the races as a neutral, but I must admit it pleases me if Jenson wins. I like his style.

He seems to lack the grit to overcome problems in the manner of LH or SV, and needs the car to suit the track or nothing. As you infer, if McLaren collude with him on next year's design, it could be interesting.

[Marbot]

With regard to having vital input into next seasons car:

"When you're team-mates with Lewis you share the direction of the car, if you like. Whereas now, with Lewis leaving, I have a couple of months to really direct the team into what I would like with the car before Checo (Pérez) arrives."


http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ortant-for-me/

On reflection, and bearing in mind that McLaren was Hamilton's team, Button has done an outstanding job.

[Knowlesy]

Jenson is a beautiful driver and probably a better team man, with his vast experience and less fiery nature.

If we count Lewis' dreadful 2011 as a blip (which I do) then I feel Hamilton had the upper hand quite easily. And he did seem to suffer his reliability problems whilst in very strong positions.

I find it barely believable that Hamilton finished two points ahead of Button this season just gone. There were very few weekends where Button had the upper hand and I can't really think of any major mistakes Hamilton made barring an ineffectual tour off the road in Abu Dhabi and a poor setup choice in Belgium qualifying.

I am definitely Lewis biased of course, so feel free to tear into me.

[Peter Mallett]

I think this is the problem, bias. With respect those who like Lewis above Jenson, are IMO those who also followed Montoya with almost disciple like tendencies. Notwithstanding Lewis' obvious talent, he has too many flaws in his general character, such as that chip, which come to the fore when things go wrong.

I really can't subscribe to the car failure thing because it happened to both of them, not least Silverstone last year for Jenson. So to suggest Lewis has had a worse time is being biased. Also, lest we forget, whilst it is true that Jenson may be a somewhat more sensitive driver, Lewis wasn't exactly setting the world alight at those races (eg Silverstone 2012) where the car really didn't perform.

On balance I am surprised anyone can really decide which is better. Two points this year, but an overall points advantage for Button, suggest that they are both equally talented. That said, if I were a betting man I'd put money on Button winning another WDC before Hamilton.

[garcon]

I was one of the few who thought Button would hand Hamilton's ass to him on a plate - the vocal majority seemed convinced it would be the other way round.

In the event, we were both wrong. I can only call it an honourable draw, with perhaps Button having a slight advantage. They've both had peaks and troughs, they've shown almost diametrically opposite approaches and skill sets, which in the end more or less cancelled each other out. Combine the best qualities of both of them and you'd have an almost nailed on WDC favourite.

[Knowlesy]

So to clarify, a drivers performance on a given weekend is discounted completely if he has a mechanical failure?

[davyboy]

Lewis=hare, Jenson=tortoise.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

So to clarify, a drivers performance on a given weekend is discounted completely if he has a mechanical failure?

You'd have to discount mechanical failures if you want to be objective.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Lewis=hare, Jenson=tortoise.

Interesting point. So this year the stats show Button having more fastest laps than Hamilton.

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

[Bononi]

I think it was the best pair of drivers McLaren ever had, yes, better than Senna/Prost, because they got along well.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Interesting point. So this year the stats show Button having more fastest laps than Hamilton.

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

Fastest laps this year are a bit of a misnomer as they're generally done on the last lap or two of the race... a point in time when many drivers will be cruising or managing problems etc... It's different to when refuelling was allowed. I haven't checked it myself, but the qualifying stats would be more interesting I think.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

So to clarify, a drivers performance on a given weekend is discounted completely if he has a mechanical failure?

No. But these things generally even out among team mates over a period of time. Plus. Sometimes a driver just uses up his 'luck' quota elsewhere.

Originally Posted by davyboy

Lewis=hare, Jenson=tortoise.

Perhaps a mixture of the two would be best?

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

You'd have to discount mechanical failures if you want to be objective.

True. If we go back through F1 history and judge drivers on whether or not they beat them by simply having better reliability than their team mates, then what's the point of it all?

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Interesting point. So this year the stats show Button having more fastest laps than Hamilton.

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

That's actually a trophy that Hamilton has never won.

"Vettel's Red Bull team-mate, Mark Webber, claimed the DHL title last season, while Räikkönen and Alonso have also won the award since it was introduced in 2007."

To quote GPupdate.

[Peter Mallett]

The qualifying stats are only interesting if you stop there. Results are the real point of the exercise. Over the past three years the pair are (I think) equal on fastest laps. As has been said Button doesn't qualify as well, but if the points are to be believed, then he finishes better.

So, again where is the major difference between them? I can only think it is perception. The stats just don't bear out any difference and "what ifs" just can't be counted if we are to come to an objective conclusion.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I think it was the best pair of drivers McLaren ever had, yes, better than Senna/Prost, because they got along well.

Indeed. You would never now win a drivers championship with that sort of team management going on.

Hamilton wins votes because of his often 'combative' driving style, which can have a poorer outcome (crashing), and lead to other issues (hissy fits). I can't remember the last time Button suffered from either of them.

For me, Hamilton wins hands down if you want your driver to take on the role and image of a dare devil fighter plane pilot. He'll get all of the attention. Button is the guy flying the precision night time bombing mission behind enemy lines. Both doing a similar job, but in different ways.

[Greem]

Given this forum's recent descent into stats land in other threads, this is interesting...

Discounting non-scoring (retired for whichever reason, finishing lower than tenth) races the pair pan out across the 3 years in points/race as follows:

2012 (20 races) HAM (14 points finishes) 13.57, BUT (14) 13.43 - close, HAM edges it
2011 (19 races) HAM (16) 14.19, BUT (17) 15.88 - BUT gets it
2010 (19 races) HAM (15) 16.00, BUT (16) 13.38 - HAM's year

It's still pretty close though, and I haven't bothered with the details of why the non-scores happened, just that they were non-scores. I think factoring in reliability or driver error (fault or not) might move things a bit, but not much.

All in all I think they were fairly evenly matched.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Marbot

For me, Hamilton wins hands down if you want your driver to take on the role and image of a dare devil fighter plane pilot. He'll get all of the attention. Button is the guy flying the precision night time Bombing mission behind enemy lines. Both doing a similar job, but in different ways.

A good (if somewhat melodramatic) analogy.

Originally Posted by Greem

All in all I think they were fairly evenly matched.

My point exactly.

[garcon]

Talking of quali performances, they shouldn't be used as a comparison in their own right in my view (the old adage "you don't win any points on Saturday"), but they have been influential. If Button's Saturday performances hadn't been so utterly woeful all season he could have mounted a title challenge. Week after week his race was fatally compromised by a poor grid slot.

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed. But then you get the problem of why Lewis qualified so well but only garnered two extra points?

[garcon]

True. Another example of the contrast between them. Jenson is more likely to consistently collect points even from a lower grid slot, Lewis tends more towards win or bust.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

For me, Hamilton wins hands down if you want your driver to take on the role and image of a dare devil fighter plane pilot. He'll get all of the attention. Button is the guy flying the precision night time bombing mission behind enemy lines. Both doing a similar job, but in different ways.

I liked that romantic comparision !

[paddy]

If I was a team owner I'd pick Hamilton above Button. He's just quicker in my view. He's had the wrong end of the reliability and team cockups and that makes things look closer than they actually are. Jenson really needs the car to be exactly right whereas Lewis seems to screw the most out of it whatever. There's not much in it and both are fine drivers, but in my team I'd want Hamilton.

[bella]

i'd take both. this driver pairing has been a great demonstration of how different approaches and different styles compliment each other and work well to get the best out of the car regardless of the situation. getting the best out of the reliability and the pitcrew is another matter, but for the drivers it was pretty much a perfect situation.