Top 20 Greatest F1 drivers - Page 13

**Bononi** · 13 Nov 2012, 19:59 (Ref:3165989)

Strange things happen in that Island...

**Aysedasi** · 13 Nov 2012, 21:13 (Ref:3166010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicanary

The stupid thing is, they say in the blurb that he is considered by many as the greatest racing driver of all time, but of course being the Beeb he's not as far as they're concerned.

When it comes to Senna, there are a lot of brown tongues out there. Must have been chewing licquorice.

The one thing you need to remember is that, in a similar way to the DOTR threads, I won't necessarily agree with you and you won't necessarily agree with him or her and they won't agree with them next door and so on and so on because it all depends on your interpretation of the word 'great' or 'greatest'. I love licorice, by the way, but it has absolutely nothing to do with my choice.

davyboy · 13 Nov 2012, 21:40 (Ref:3166029)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicanary

The stupid thing is, they say in the blurb that he is considered by many as the greatest racing driver of all time, but of course being the Beeb he's not as far as they're concerned.

When it comes to Senna, there are a lot of brown tongues out there. Must have been chewing licquorice.

People swoon over Senna the way they do over a pop star... so I can understand why their opinion would part company from fact. But I guess given recent events we also shouldn't be surprised if the Beeb has similar confusion in differentiating fantasy from reality

nicanary · 13 Nov 2012, 21:59 (Ref:3166037)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

People swoon over Senna the way they do over a pop star... so I can understand why their opinion would part company from fact. But I guess given recent events we also shouldn't be surprised if the Beeb has similar confusion in differentiating fantasy from reality

Don't get me wrong, I'd never cast aspersions on Senna's brilliance - he's one of the greatest without a doubt. And the wonderful Sid Watkins rated him as a person, so maybe there was more to him "behind the scenes". I just can't forgive him for some of the "stuff", if you know what I mean.

He made Schumi look saintly at times. There was no need - he was good enough to win without doing that; Fangio would have shaken his head in disbelief and sadness.

wnut · 13 Nov 2012, 22:54 (Ref:3166066)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicanary

Don't get me wrong, I'd never cast aspersions on Senna's brilliance - he's one of the greatest without a doubt. And the wonderful Sid Watkins rated him as a person, so maybe there was more to him "behind the scenes". I just can't forgive him for some of the "stuff", if you know what I mean.

He made Schumi look saintly at times. There was no need - he was good enough to win without doing that; Fangio would have shaken his head in disbelief and sadness.

Senna was a man of honour, and once his code was violated, the gloves were off. The FIA was a nasty organisation subject to hideous political manipulations, which often targetted Senna, and he responded! The pole in Japan being the most obvious.

As for Schu, I always felt that Senna was responsible for "bringing him up" and it was a hard school!

These individuals are winners and can not be expected to accept injustices gracefully!

**Bononi** · 13 Nov 2012, 23:02 (Ref:3166069)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicanary

Don't get me wrong, I'd never cast aspersions on Senna's brilliance - he's one of the greatest without a doubt. And the wonderful Sid Watkins rated him as a person, so maybe there was more to him "behind the scenes". I just can't forgive him for some of the "stuff", if you know what I mean.

He made Schumi look saintly at times. There was no need - he was good enough to win without doing that; Fangio would have shaken his head in disbelief and sadness.

I agree with you mostly, I never liked him, his attitude, until the day he died and later that night I started to know things about him "behind the scenes" and a new "Senna" grew on me...

I'm still not his fan, but I do respect to him now. And believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

And regarding his racing skills, there are still many things that is amazing about him. Problably, IMHO, he's the greatest driver in F1 history so far... "greatest" meaning the whole racer/man persona in a single racer.

(It's pretty much like Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson in music)

**Bononi** · 13 Nov 2012, 23:10 (Ref:3166073)

Oh, and Fangio never shaked his head to Senna's actions...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQITOb3vLB0

**bjohnsonsmith** · 14 Nov 2012, 11:16 (Ref:3166219)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

But I guess given recent events we also shouldn't be surprised if the Beeb has similar confusion in differentiating fantasy from reality

Just what I was thinking.

nicanary · 14 Nov 2012, 15:32 (Ref:3166290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Senna was a man of honour, and once his code was violated, the gloves were off. The FIA was a nasty organisation subject to hideous political manipulations, which often targetted Senna, and he responded! The pole in Japan being the most obvious.

As for Schu, I always felt that Senna was responsible for "bringing him up" and it was a hard school!

These individuals are winners and can not be expected to accept injustices gracefully!

But to retaliate is to me a sign of immaturity, and the racetrack is too dangerous a place for that.

I really can't imagine Fangio behaving like that. or Moss, or Clark, or Stewart...........

Clive Brown · 14 Nov 2012, 16:10 (Ref:3166299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

This will surely mean Ayrton Senna at no. 1

Dirtiest F1 driver of all time maybe, rivalled only by TGF. It's a shame that he did not compete in the era of greats such as Alan Jones and Mario Andretti, who wouldn't have taken that sort of **** from anyone. They might have taught him basic track manners.

**chunterer** · 14 Nov 2012, 19:37 (Ref:3166364)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Dirtiest F1 driver of all time maybe, rivalled only by TGF. It's a shame that he did not compete in the era of greats such as Alan Jones and Mario Andretti, who wouldn't have taken that sort of **** from anyone. They might have taught him basic track manners.

Yes sure, if they had gotten anywhere near him on track in the first place. For that to happen they would likely have had to pull dirty tricks too, as great drivers as they both were in F1, they simply wouldn't have been able to challenge him on pace.

**Bononi** · 14 Nov 2012, 22:43 (Ref:3166436)

It's always about love and passion...

I love F1 !

JeremySmith · 14 Nov 2012, 23:34 (Ref:3166454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I agree with you mostly, I never liked him, his attitude, until the day he died and later that night I started to know things about him "behind the scenes" and a new "Senna" grew on me...

I'm still not his fan, but I do respect to him now. And believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

And regarding his racing skills, there are still many things that is amazing about him. Problably, IMHO, he's the greatest driver in F1 history so far... "greatest" meaning the whole racer/man persona in a single racer.

(It's pretty much like Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson in music)

This is a great post, that says it all for me.......

Marbot · 15 Nov 2012, 02:17 (Ref:3166493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

(It's pretty much like Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson in music)

Well, that's also debatable.

Popular, they may have been. Not so sure about their musicianship. Each to his own, and all that.

**Bononi** · 15 Nov 2012, 13:33 (Ref:3166647)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Well, that's also debatable.

Popular, they may have been. Not so sure about their musicianship. Each to his own, and all that.

That's it ! Exactly the point !

BSchneiderFan · 15 Nov 2012, 16:40 (Ref:3166722)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Senna was a man of honour, and once his code was violated, the gloves were off.

That's not how "honour" works.

**Aysedasi** · 15 Nov 2012, 16:46 (Ref:3166726)

That presupposes that 'honour' (however you interpret the word) is a prerequisite for the 'greatest' F1 driver....

davyboy · 15 Nov 2012, 17:00 (Ref:3166730)

I've always been a great fan of Senna's but I wouldn't put him top of a list of the greatest of all time because there were better and more successful drivers... it's as simple as that.

Paradise City · 15 Nov 2012, 18:31 (Ref:3166754)

People are mesmerised by Senna's Latin mystique and he got away with much more. It's hard for an efficient German ace to be on par with that.

I rate Senna though and if he isn't the best, he's up there. The top aces of 50's and 60's rate higher than both Schumacher and Senna. The mortality rate was phenomenal, the cars were treacherous and to dance with death like that takes another level of courage whilst demanding a high standard of on-track etiquette. That's a real metric for talent above the technical accomplishment of simply ratcheting up a bunch of stats or the acquisition of wealth.

**Bononi** · 15 Nov 2012, 19:10 (Ref:3166767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

People are mesmerised by Senna's Latin mystique and he got away with much more. It's hard for an efficient German ace to be on par with that.

I rate Senna though and if he isn't the best, he's up there. The top aces of 50's and 60's rate higher than both Schumacher and Senna. The mortality rate was phenomenal, the cars were treacherous and to dance with death like that takes another level of courage whilst demanding a high standard of on-track etiquette. That's a real metric for talent above the technical accomplishment of simply ratcheting up a bunch of stats or the acquisition of wealth.

Latin mystique... I have yet to find what it means.

Marbot · 15 Nov 2012, 19:19 (Ref:3166770)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Latin mystique

Isn't that a perfume of some sort?

**Aysedasi** · 15 Nov 2012, 19:53 (Ref:3166785)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

People are mesmerised by Senna's Latin mystique and he got away with much more. It's hard for an efficient German ace to be on par with that.

I rate Senna though and if he isn't the best, he's up there. The top aces of 50's and 60's rate higher than both Schumacher and Senna. The mortality rate was phenomenal, the cars were treacherous and to dance with death like that takes another level of courage whilst demanding a high standard of on-track etiquette. That's a real metric for talent above the technical accomplishment of simply ratcheting up a bunch of stats or the acquisition of wealth.

I don't think I would class either Senna's or Schumacher's accomplishments as 'simple' technical ones.....

davyboy · 15 Nov 2012, 21:35 (Ref:3166826)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I don't think I would class either Senna's or Schumacher's accomplishments as 'simple' technical ones.....

Agreed... and furthermore, 'ratcheting up a bunch of stats' is what happens when you win races - lots of them - and as we've been told many times by drivers down through the years, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing... so much so that many lost their lives in it's quest.

**Bononi** · 15 Nov 2012, 22:28 (Ref:3166851)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I don't think I would class either Senna's or Schumacher's accomplishments as 'simple' technical ones.....

Maybe for the ones who never watched them happening...

Paradise City · 16 Nov 2012, 00:49 (Ref:3166897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I don't think I would class either Senna's or Schumacher's accomplishments as 'simple' technical ones.....

I didn't say that though.

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