Top 20 Greatest F1 drivers - Page 7

**Bononi** · 4 Sep 2012, 19:27 (Ref:3130750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

Does it, never really had time to look, or contribute so this is a first for me.

Just keep going !

**Aysedasi** · 4 Sep 2012, 20:30 (Ref:3130794)

Quote:

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Feel free to make a point.

That's what everyone's been doing - and will no doubt continue to do now that the Mansell analysis has died down a little.......

**Bononi** · 4 Sep 2012, 20:35 (Ref:3130797)

I would like someone could make a point about Takuma Sato.

Where's Sato San when you need him ?

formerf1champ · 5 Sep 2012, 06:09 (Ref:3131032)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

That's what everyone's been doing - and will no doubt continue to do now that the Mansell analysis has died down a little.......

Conversations can overlap, though.

**Aysedasi** · 5 Sep 2012, 07:06 (Ref:3131055)

Sure but the point was well made and disagreement sometimes has to be left as exactly that. I don't expect people to agree with me all the time, no matter how 'right' I think I am!

davyboy · 5 Sep 2012, 08:05 (Ref:3131085)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I would like someone could make a point about Takuma Sato.

I sat beside him on a 12 hour Virgin Atlantic flight from London to Tokyo a few years ago and he came across as a really nice guy. He told me I should take up GT racing in Japan (!)

**Aysedasi** · 5 Sep 2012, 08:17 (Ref:3131090)

Right, that puts him in at about #5 then, I guess!

davyboy · 5 Sep 2012, 08:30 (Ref:3131098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Right, that puts him in at about #5 then, I guess!

Agreed... I mean he holds the record for the most times a Formula One driver has sat beside me on a long haul flight and that's definitely worth more than Nigel Mansell's 31 wins

nicanary · 5 Sep 2012, 09:26 (Ref:3131144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

Sir Stirling's books aren't great, they are mainly statistical lists with a few comments on cars so you dont get the man or the era, however the Alf Francis book catches this, I hope the new book by Tony Robinson may also catch this as i'm about to order it.

Just between you and me, since I got the hint from the others, try Ken Gregory's "Behind the scenes of motor racing". He was Stirling's flatmate as well as manager, and got to know him as a person.

Now we'd better drop it.

BootsOntheSide · 5 Sep 2012, 11:03 (Ref:3131185)

I know I'm a bit late for the Mansell discussion, but I can't place the guy in my top 20. He drove a huge variety of cars - everything from ground effects through turbos to active suspension and semi-automatic gearboxes - and had more mechanical failures than his team-mates in virtually every season. That can't all be down to luck, especially as it was much easier to overdrive the cars than it is now. His title came from a huge car advantage and a team-mate who wasn't championship material, while he also had the best car in 86 and 87 yet failed to win either year. True legends don't have phases of their careers in which guys like Berger and de Angelis can beat them.

Meanwhile, the BBC have just placed Vettel 8th, which it appears virtually everybody considers to be too high. I doubt he could maximise results and inspire car development when starting the season with an uncompetitive car the way Alonso has this year. His qualifying pace is among the best ever, but once you peel away at the statistics you find question marks over his racecraft and tactical instincts.

FastDB2s · 5 Sep 2012, 12:22 (Ref:3131230)

Added to that the'finger' p...es everybody off !

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Meanwhile, the BBC have just placed Vettel 8th, which it appears virtually everybody considers to be too high. I doubt he could maximise results and inspire car development when starting the season with an uncompetitive car the way Alonso has this year. His qualifying pace is among the best ever, but once you peel away at the statistics you find question marks over his racecraft and tactical instincts.

Added to that the'finger' p...es everybody off !

davyboy · 5 Sep 2012, 13:11 (Ref:3131254)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

True legends don't have phases of their careers in which guys like Berger and de Angelis can beat them.

One of the best comments in the entire thread.

**Bononi** · 5 Sep 2012, 14:35 (Ref:3131314)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

Added to that the'finger' p...es everybody off !

Added to that the'finger' p...es everybody off !

Does it ?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 5 Sep 2012, 15:01 (Ref:3131359)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I would like someone could make a point about Takuma Sato.

Where's Sato San when you need him ?

He's racing in IndyCar for Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing and is currently 16th in the IndyCar championship. He nearly came 2nd at Indy but crashed out of the race on the last lap, (something he did a lot last season) while trying to overtake Dario Franchitti.

His best result this season was 2nd at the Edmonton Indy.

davyboy · 5 Sep 2012, 15:31 (Ref:3131381)

This guy ought to be in the Top 20, he's taken human greatness to another level altogether.

**Bononi** · 5 Sep 2012, 15:32 (Ref:3131385)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He's racing in IndyCar for Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing and is currently 16th in the IndyCar championship. He nearly came 2nd at Indy but crashed out of the race on the last lap, (something he did a lot last season) while trying to overtake Dario Franchitti.

His best result this season was 2nd at the Edmonton Indy.

It seems that IndyCar doesn't count in the rankings...

**bjohnsonsmith** · 5 Sep 2012, 15:49 (Ref:3131399)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It seems that IndyCar doesn't count in the rankings...

You wanted someone to make a point about Takuma Sato,

.

**Bononi** · 5 Sep 2012, 17:03 (Ref:3131459)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

You wanted someone to make a point about Takuma Sato,

.

In F1...

formerf1champ · 5 Sep 2012, 22:45 (Ref:3131660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

I know I'm a bit late for the Mansell discussion, but I can't place the guy in my top 20.

I would love to see your top 20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

He drove a huge variety of cars - everything from ground effects through turbos to active suspension and semi-automatic gearboxes - and had more mechanical failures than his team-mates in virtually every season. That can't all be down to luck, especially as it was much easier to overdrive the cars than it is now.

How do you know it wasn't? You seem to be relying on a popular notion. But anyway, even if Mansell had some predisposition to being hard on, then breaking cars. Can you tell me, since no one else has tried to, how Mansell was able to be so good on ovals, in a passive car as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

His title came from a huge car advantage and a team-mate who wasn't championship material,

Another one not being able to see past the fw14b. It's just too easy for some people, I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

while he also had the best car in 86 and 87 yet failed to win either year. True legends don't have phases of their careers in which guys like Berger and de Angelis can beat them.

In what context has Berger beaten Mansell? de Angelis had two "freebie" wins in his career, did he create any other serious opportunities to win, especailly in 84? I was watching "Lauda's greatedt drives -Portugal 84" on YT the other day. I was reminded that Mansell put himself in contention to win that one as well. So along with Monaco and Dallas that year. he created 3 opportunities for a win, but only scored one point.

Word of the thread - prejudice.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 5 Sep 2012, 22:51 (Ref:3131666)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

In F1...

But he's not in F1 anymore,

.

wnut · 5 Sep 2012, 23:23 (Ref:3131680)

Murray Walker's take

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGKsK...eature=related

**bjohnsonsmith** · 5 Sep 2012, 23:28 (Ref:3131687)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Murray Walker's take

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGKsK...eature=related

Thanks, a very interesting take.

deeks6 · 6 Sep 2012, 03:21 (Ref:3131758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Meanwhile, the BBC have just placed Vettel 8th, which it appears virtually everybody considers to be too high. I doubt he could maximise results and inspire car development when starting the season with an uncompetitive car the way Alonso has this year. His qualifying pace is among the best ever, but once you peel away at the statistics you find question marks over his racecraft and tactical instincts.

Not me. I may be biased because I like the guy a lot but at this stage, I'd rate him the equal of Alonso, who I rate very highly. However, I think that Seb will be undisputed Number 1 at the end of his career.
I can't agree about the racecraft and tactics - I think he has shown over the last 2 seasons (after the notorious Hungary bust up) that he is as good as anyone.

deeks6 · 6 Sep 2012, 03:22 (Ref:3131759)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Sure but the point was well made and disagreement sometimes has to be left as exactly that. I don't expect people to agree with me all the time, no matter how 'right' I think I am!

Aint that the truth...

Sato san · 8 Sep 2012, 23:15 (Ref:3133015)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I would like someone could make a point about Takuma Sato

Where's Sato San when you need him ?

Just seen this while reading through this thread... Here I am Bon

I would not have Taku in the greatest F1 drivers of all time, but would certainly put him in my Greatest F3 drivers if all time ( certainly higher than Senna ir Magnussen ) Taku never gives up, maximum attack, nice guy too ( that's just a bonus ) lol.

Back to greatest F1 drivers... Well, Mansell would certainly be in my top 2, incredible bravery and car control, the stats do not show what an incredible driver he was, but on track he was very special in any type of race car, .the same as Jim Clark could race and win in anything, so could Mansell. Modern day drivers like Vettel & Hamilton certainly wouldnt be in my top ten yet, Vettel has many stats but he needs more years and to go up against world champion teammates to mark him out as a really special driver, he is very good but he needs the challenges future years will provide to show his real overall ability. I would certainly have to pick Alonso though, he is a very special talent in so many directions as of course is Schumacher. My top 3 would probably be Clark, Mansell, Senna.

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