Is Hamilton a cynical driver?

[50-SIX]

Originally Posted by Andy77

If one knows how to cheat, it is him. Therefore, he has enough experience to know the usual penalty of it too.

Personally I think Hamilton is the most dangerous driver , the bad way, these days. He knows there is next to no risk even when crashing these days (as Webbers flip has shown too) nor a direct penalty from coming too wide and get stuck in the kitty litter, thanks to his aggressive style. Added to that he ramboes around the circuit and collects reprimands after reprimands or penaltys that absolutely do not hurt instead of getting hurtful penalties that may change his attitude a bit. Instead of raising the finger, saying "bad boy, bad..." and let him getting away with it once more I wish stewards and officials would put him over the knee, to keep it in the picture.

Not to forget he almost ruined Vettels race too when he nearly sent him into the wall at T2 right after the start but complained to the team that Vettel had hit him which really wasnt a suprise given how much space Hamilton left Vettel to live.

I like to see close racing. Sometimes when racing is close the cars touch. Yes Hamilton is aggresive, but I would not say too aggresive. I certainly wouldn't want to see him reigned in, and I doubt he would listen anyway. The racing in F1 is boring enough without asking drivers to be less aggresive. Vettel and Hamilton came together on the first few corners when jockying for position. Yeah Hamilton's comment of 'Vettel hit me' was a little rich, but he was merely pointing out that they had touched and for the guys to check his car was ok. Remember he was saying this whilst driving the rest of the lap attacking and defending.

If you want to see overly aggresive driving, view MS's Montreal race, putting Massa on the grass in the braking area for the final chicane, or driving on the grass when battling with Kubica. I'm not a Hamiton fan boy, but he is great to watch and I fully respect him as a racer, and I wouldn't change a thing about the way he drives. The greats from the past have always been just on the right side of reckless, and the danger/risk element (used to be anyway) is half the attraction of motor racing.

I don't see people slagging off Kobiyashi for his last lap passes, and why should they, they were brilliant. But they also relied heavily on trust in the other driver. If they had ended in tears then they would have looked reckless and people would have been questioning his choice to overtake when he was in a good points scoring position. Either way, I would have loved the fact that he was still having a go right to flag - another true racer, the sport would be boring without them.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Andy77

If one knows how to cheat, it is him. Therefore, he has enough experience to know the usual penalty of it too.

Personally I think Hamilton is the most dangerous driver , the bad way, these days. He knows there is next to no risk even when crashing these days (as Webbers flip has shown too) nor a direct penalty from coming too wide and get stuck in the kitty litter, thanks to his aggressive style. Added to that he ramboes around the circuit and collects reprimands after reprimands or penaltys that absolutely do not hurt instead of getting hurtful penalties that may change his attitude a bit. Instead of raising the finger, saying "bad boy, bad..." and let him getting away with it once more I wish stewards and officials would put him over the knee, to keep it in the picture.

Not to forget he almost ruined Vettels race too when he nearly sent him into the wall at T2 right after the start but complained to the team that Vettel had hit him which really wasnt a suprise given how much space Hamilton left Vettel to live.

Just my opinion of course, but I think that's rubbish.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by 50-SIX

I like to see close racing. Sometimes when racing is close the cars touch. Yes Hamilton is aggresive, but I would not say too aggresive. I certainly wouldn't want to see him reigned in, and I doubt he would listen anyway. The racing in F1 is boring enough without asking drivers to be less aggresive. Vettel and Hamilton came together on the first few corners when jockying for position. Yeah Hamilton's comment of 'Vettel hit me' was a little rich, but he was merely pointing out that they had touched and for the guys to check his car was ok. Remember he was saying this whilst driving the rest of the lap attacking and defending.

If you want to see overly aggresive driving, view MS's Montreal race, putting Massa on the grass in the braking area for the final chicane, or driving on the grass when battling with Kubica. I'm not a Hamiton fan boy, but he is great to watch and I fully respect him as a racer, and I wouldn't change a thing about the way he drives. The greats from the past have always been just on the right side of reckless, and the danger/risk element (used to be anyway) is half the attraction of motor racing.

I don't see people slagging off Kobiyashi for his last lap passes, and why should they, they were brilliant. But they also relied heavily on trust in the other driver. If they had ended in tears then they would have looked reckless and people would have been questioning his choice to overtake when he was in a good points scoring position. Either way, I would have loved the fact that he was still having a go right to flag - another true racer, the sport would be boring without them.

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

I think that's a little hysterical.

[pannenmann]

Yeah right...
First you say:

"He knows there is next to no risk even when crashing these days (as Webbers flip has shown too)"

And now:

"I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1."

Within not even 90 minutes. Now that's really quite rubbish...

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by pannenmann

Yeah right...
First you say:

"He knows there is next to no risk even when crashing these days (as Webbers flip has shown too)"

And now:

"I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1."

Within not even 90 minutes. Now that's really quite rubbish...

Where have I said that Hamilton will be the victim ?

[brands]

Originally Posted by Andy77

If one knows how to cheat, it is him. Therefore, he has enough experience to know the usual penalty of it too.

Personally I think Hamilton is the most dangerous driver , the bad way, these days. He knows there is next to no risk even when crashing these days (as Webbers flip has shown too) nor a direct penalty from coming too wide and get stuck in the kitty litter, thanks to his aggressive style. Added to that he ramboes around the circuit and collects reprimands after reprimands or penaltys that absolutely do not hurt instead of getting hurtful penalties that may change his attitude a bit. Instead of raising the finger, saying "bad boy, bad..." and let him getting away with it once more I wish stewards and officials would put him over the knee, to keep it in the picture.

Not to forget he almost ruined Vettels race too when he nearly sent him into the wall at T2 right after the start but complained to the team that Vettel had hit him which really wasnt a suprise given how much space Hamilton left Vettel to live.

I thought the first post in this thread was fantasy but this drivel beats it hands down.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

You may want to re-consider that remark. You're sailing very close to the wind, IMHO.

[ensign14]

How many accidents has Hamilton actually caused? There was the flub that saw him hit Alonso up the back, the Canada freak which was nothing to do with actual racing, and, er...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

I also think it's an unnecessary comment.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

Whenever I read any of your posts I will think of this.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

Goodness me.

[pannenmann]

What a jolly evening...

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by ensign14

What seemed to happen was LH saw SC on his right, slowed because he knew he couldn't pass it, but then thought "it hasn't passed the line" and tried to beat it. Of course he was not expecting the SC as it should have gone out ahead of Vettel.

Had LH kept his normal speed, he would have got past the SC legit. Alonso would have had no chance.

How has this thread reached 5 pages when this was posted at the end of page 1? What else is there to say? (Other than, obviously, that Lewis is a danger to himself and others and should be kept well away from a racetrack in future. )

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

How has this thread reached 5 pages when this was posted at the end of page 1? What else is there to say? (Other than, obviously, that Lewis is a danger to himself and others and should be kept well away from a racetrack in future. )

Lewis is the just most shocking race car pilot I have ever seen...

I would like to see more gentile racers like Lawrence Welk or maybe Flavio Briatore for instance...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Lewis is the just most shocking race car pilot I have ever seen...

I would like to see more gentile racers like Lawrence Welk or maybe Flavio Briatore for instance...

Lol. Did you read what Briatore said about Lewis being black flagged?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

Yup and the stewards and apparently Mr Whiting can take a bow for allowing it to happen!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Lol. Did you read what Briatore said about Lewis being black flagged?

This Flavio Briatori (edited) is more shocking than anyone involved in F1 to be honest..

Now to answer your question, not really mate no I did not read his rubbish..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

This Flavio Briatori (edited) is more shocking than anyone involved in F1 to be honest..

Now to answer your question, not really mate no I did not read his rubbish..

Fairenough. I posted it earlier on so you can have a gander if you like; it does beggar belief.

[wnut]

Quote by Tourer on SC thread

To me, the issue is not the SC so much as the proper use of it and the respect that should be given by competitors to the yellow flags and boards when the SC is out.


As BJS also says on the SC thread, "this is the crux of the matter."
Currently the stewards and race director are not punishing people for ignoring the safety car regulations, and what is more they are gaining racing advantages from their actions!

This leads to a culture of ignoring the regulations and will lead to a fatality amongst the rescue workers who the regulations are designed to protect.

It is clear that Alonso should have overtaken the safety car to protect his race position at Valencia. The penalty for violating the safety car rules was less than the penalty for obeying the rules! This should never happen!

Racing in pit lane, and safety car infractions and speeding on yellow laps are all unacceptable and we have had ten cars in this race alone that are guilty of these offences.

Somebody is going to get killed, or somebody will die because the rescue staff do not have the confidence in their own safety to do their work properley!

Safety regulations must be sacrosanct and if their imposition ruins the show - TOUGH!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Quote by Tourer on SC thread

To me, the issue is not the SC so much as the proper use of it and the respect that should be given by competitors to the yellow flags and boards when the SC is out.


As BJS also says on the SC thread, "this is the crux of the matter."
Currently the stewards and race director are not punishing people for ignoring the safety car regulations, and what is more they are gaining racing advantages from their actions!

This leads to a culture of ignoring the regulations and will lead to a fatality amongst the rescue workers who the regulations are designed to protect.

It is clear that Alonso should have overtaken the safety car to protect his race position at Valencia. The penalty for violating the safety car rules was less than the penalty for obeying the rules! This should never happen!

Racing in pit lane, and safety car infractions and speeding on yellow laps are all unacceptable and we have had ten cars in this race alone that are guilty of these offences.

Somebody is going to get killed, or somebody will die because the rescue staff do not have the confidence in their own safety to do their work properley!

Safety regulations must be sacrosanct and if their imposition ruins the show - TOUGH!

Don't change the font, it's not very helpful.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.

I think you should be permanently banned from the board for that comment.

[JamesH]

It's interesting - there are two (or more) people who posts have, for some time, been vehemently anti Hamilton for almost anything he does. For some reason they really really hate LH, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. They take every chance to belittle and accuse this driver of cheating, dangerous driving, cynical racing, bad manners, immature comments. I am sure there is more.

What I don't understand is how people can make these judgments simply by watching someone on a television, when they have no personal experience of racing an F1 car (or perhaps any car), they have never met the driver in question, and all they have to go on are second hand pictures and comments. The level of vitriol being espoused is really extreme, and is at the level usually applied to serial killers and the like! Yes, I have drivers I like and dislike, but some of the comments being made really beggar belief.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by wnut

Quote by Tourer on SC thread

To me, the issue is not the SC so much as the proper use of it and the respect that should be given by competitors to the yellow flags and boards when the SC is out.


As BJS also says on the SC thread, "this is the crux of the matter."
Currently the stewards and race director are not punishing people for ignoring the safety car regulations, and what is more they are gaining racing advantages from their actions!

This leads to a culture of ignoring the regulations and will lead to a fatality amongst the rescue workers who the regulations are designed to protect.

It is clear that Alonso should have overtaken the safety car to protect his race position at Valencia. The penalty for violating the safety car rules was less than the penalty for obeying the rules! This should never happen!

Racing in pit lane, and safety car infractions and speeding on yellow laps are all unacceptable and we have had ten cars in this race alone that are guilty of these offences.

Somebody is going to get killed, or somebody will die because the rescue staff do not have the confidence in their own safety to do their work properley!

Safety regulations must be sacrosanct and if their imposition ruins the show - TOUGH!

The issue with safety cars and yellow flags is not solely a F1 problem (I know as someone who was t-boned in a big accident at Silverstone by the middle of three cars abreast (so obviously racing) whilst under yellow flags. I still haven't repaired the car completely and that was three (four?) years ago.

The LH case is odd, because had LH been given the penalty straight away (and he should have been given it because the safety car reached the SC line before he did - had he not slowed he would have been fine), rather than however many laps later the penalty would have been much more severe to his race position. So, this problem is with race control not with LH (except for his momentary misunderstanding about what to do in this very specific circumstance) and the stewards not making their minds up fast enough - and I cannot comment on why it took so long. And neither can anyone else where unless they were on that committee. It may be that the stewards did not notice the incident until it was pointed out to them by Ferrari, and they then needed to check the footage, all of which takes time. Still leaves a bit of extra time to explain though.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I hope you stand by this opinion too when Hamilton has caused the next fatality in f1.