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Old 20 Jan 2017, 13:40 (Ref:3703817)   #176
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Tragic news, I just hope this is a freak accident, otherwise it'll be a worrying season for everyone. Interesting rally so far, hard to know who's gonna be top come the end
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 15:09 (Ref:3703844)   #177
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A terrible tragedy for sure. In watching the video you can see him fall down the bank from above the shot, and he lands next to the car / behind the car, but only after it's fully come to rest, at least as far as I can tell.

Looking forward to watching some of the stages later tonight.
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 15:18 (Ref:3703849)   #178
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According to a very experienced guy I know the new front wing could be quite dangerous. If lost or damaged, he thought the cars would become hard to handle and dangerous to drive.

Further, when jumping the front rises, reminding of when race cars in example NASCAR or formula racing lifts of the ground. It will be interesting to see the cars here in Sweden since the roads are very fast, not very wide and have many jumps.
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 16:15 (Ref:3703860)   #179
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Interesting you should say that as I was having a conversation about potential front aero problems at the weekend. You would have expected them to have tested frontal lift with various damage scenarios - but if they haven't then they could be in trouble...
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 09:27 (Ref:3704198)   #180
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Elfyn was flying yesterday, great pace on tarmac. I was relieved to see that after the the struggles of day 2. At this rate, I might have to consider some Dmack tyres for my car next time I need some!

Is it me or is WRC2 getting a little more coverage this time? I wonder if that was the plan or whether it something to do with Mikkelsen competing in the class.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how Tanak does in the inter-team battle with Ogier. Speaking of Seb, the in-car shots makes him look like he's trying to peer over something to see ahead!

Hard luck for Neuville (can't help feeling the Hyundai's suspension is still a little too susceptible when it takes a bit of a shock) and Meeke.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 10:56 (Ref:3704216)   #181
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Shame both Neuville and Meeke, at least Ogier had to fight back to win this
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 11:39 (Ref:3704222)   #182
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Interesting you should say that as I was having a conversation about potential front aero problems at the weekend. You would have expected them to have tested frontal lift with various damage scenarios - but if they haven't then they could be in trouble...
I have seen a number of comments on forums and Facebook from people who claim the new cars will be "undrivaeble" should they lose part of the aero package. I find it hard to believe that, if the experts on the internet can figure it out, then the minds at M-Sport, Citroen Racing etc. won't have thought of it as well!

Going to be interesting to see these cars at speed though, Finland should be great this year!

As for Monte Carlo its certainly been an eventful weekend. Bad start to the rally for Evans, but a serious show of pace from him when the tyres weren't letting him down. A mistake compounded by bad luck for Meeke, surely not the start to the year he wanted. Impressive pace from Neuville, pity about the mistake but, in this environment, there is no doubt the Hyundai has the speed. Looks like it will be Ogier on top (again), but he has had to fight and, reassuringly, the Fiesta hasn't romped away from everyone.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 21:06 (Ref:3704298)   #183
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It may be difficult to draw any conclusions for the rest of the reason given the misfortunes of Neuville and Meeke but I certainly don't think it will be dull. Good to see M-Sport back on the top of the podium - I guess people who were wondering whether they could deliver for Ogier now have their answer.

On the aero issue, sure, I'm sure they will have tested various damage and jumping scenarios but that doesn't mean world class professionals can't sometimes underestimate the issues, as every team is under pressure and they aren't going to be keen to share problems. Mercedes weren't exactly sports car rookies but that didn't stop Mr Dumbreck ending up in the trees.

Perhaps the main worry is what happens if you lose the front air dam half way through a long stage in somewhere like Finland? Its not like circuit racing where you can pull off within a mile or so and get a new nose cone. That's why I'm not sure it is a good idea to make rally cars so aero dependent. Let's face it, any driver will take some persuading to park it, however tough it is to drive...
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 07:16 (Ref:3704397)   #184
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Driver will adjust to aero damage, IMO that is a small adjustment compared to all things they face on the stage. But it will be slow, in circuit racing there is no brainer being slow or changing the nose.

Very good debut for Toyota, considering they are taking first year as developing year and they didn't have any expectations in their PR.
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 08:53 (Ref:3704415)   #185
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Good to see M-Sport back on the top of the podium - I guess people who were wondering whether they could deliver for Ogier now have their answer.
Absolutely. I'm still torn when it comes to cheering for Ogier: I really want to see M-Sport succeed, but I would like to see another name at the top of the Championship standings!
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 11:40 (Ref:3704442)   #186
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Hopefully more drivers can stay on the road in Sweden. When both Meeke and Neuville went off the rally became less interesting and Ogier could secure another victory. Hänninen impressed me and I wonder what he could have done had he not crashed.

As for aero, if you watch the cars testing in Finland on youtube, you can notice how the front lifts.
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 20:38 (Ref:3704565)   #187
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Further, when jumping the front rises, reminding of when race cars in example NASCAR or formula racing lifts of the ground

Sounds like the Quattro S1 at the 1985 1000 Lakes Rally
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 20:43 (Ref:3704567)   #188
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Perhaps the main worry is what happens if you lose the front air dam half way through a long stage in somewhere like Finland? Its not like circuit racing where you can pull off within a mile or so and get a new nose cone. That's why I'm not sure it is a good idea to make rally cars so aero dependent. Let's face it, any driver will take some persuading to park it, however tough it is to drive...


I think they'll just have to slow down significantly. They may still push, but it would be at a lower speed, because if the aero is really so important, it should be impossible to attain the dangerous high speeds without it. If anything, it would be dangerous if something breaks mid-corner or at the beginning of a braking point for a sharp corner.
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 22:01 (Ref:3704591)   #189
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the reason the car lifts at the front is simple

there is a massive huge wing on the back causing immense drag and pushing hnte car down.

The car takes off, the air gets a little under the airdam and the air continues to push on the back.

the new cars will be nothing that special, more likely to have issues if you knock off the rear spoiler than anything at the front
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 10:56 (Ref:3704716)   #190
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the reason the car lifts at the front is simple

there is a massive huge wing on the back causing immense drag and pushing hnte car down.

The car takes off, the air gets a little under the airdam and the air continues to push on the back.

the new cars will be nothing that special, more likely to have issues if you knock off the rear spoiler than anything at the front
If the nose lifts then airflow over the rear wing will be reduced anyway (and certainly the wing won't be at it's optimum angle). I don't think it'll be a huge issue - I'm sure the teams have run simulations with the aero for likely scenarios.

The cars themselves sounded better (apart from Tanaks on the final day ) and looked better (apart from the awful Toyota). I thought the cars stood up quite well to the impacts they had - there didn't seem to be shards of carbon fibre all over the place so that was positive. I thought on the whole it was a positive start to the season (aside from the spectator death of course).
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 11:46 (Ref:3704733)   #191
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The cars themselves sounded better (apart from Tanaks on the final day ) and looked better (apart from the awful Toyota).
I'm not a fan of the look of the Toyota, I think it looks like a shoebox! Oddly, it reminds me of the 6R4: boxy looks, but sounds great.

There is a clip circulating of the Yaris flat out (and on the limiter) and it sounds savage. Reminds me of the Escort WRCars.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 12:19 (Ref:3704741)   #192
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Does anyone know any truth about how much faster theya re? They usually measure rally cars per KM.

THey look quick, but not astonishingly quick, aren't they still restricted?

I would guess they have made all their aero out of very strong Kevlar, so it can take a few hits, unlike rallycross where everything seems to be made out of the thinnest stuff possible so it doesn't cut tyres and comes off easily.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 12:53 (Ref:3704747)   #193
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Does anyone know any truth about how much faster they are? They usually measure rally cars per Km.

They look quick, but not astonishingly quick, aren't they still restricted?
I'd agree with this - they don't look massively quicker - but that maybe just because of the nature of the event.

There was a piece on Motorsport saying similar; "it's far to early to say whether the new regs/ cars are a success".
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 12:53 (Ref:3704748)   #194
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They increased the restrictor from 33 mm to 36 mm and the cars are now said to have some 380 hp. They are a bit similar to the WTCC cars now.

In a video released by Citroen on Youtube, they said they worked on making the bodywork more resistant. What materials they used was never told though.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 13:30 (Ref:3704755)   #195
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Does anyone know any truth about how much faster theya re? They usually measure rally cars per KM.
Ogier finished 3m47 ahead of Breen, who was driving last years car.

Did Breen get within 3m47 of a rally win last year? Maybe the difference was not huge at this event...
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 14:42 (Ref:3704761)   #196
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I daresay Monte isn't the best rally to compare pace, as the variable weather conditions will surely throw the average stage times out. I'm not sure Breen is much of a gauge either, as sometimes having more power is not advantageous!

Germany and Finland spring to mind as the best places to get a good idea of the difference. Both are later in the season as well, so the drivers and engineers should have a better handle on the cars by then.

I read the statement "a second faster per KM" a few times in previews for 2017. That is quite a difference, so it'll be interesting to see if average rally speeds do rise.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 15:47 (Ref:3704771)   #197
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Yes, if you could find that with a new engine or part in an existing formula it's a big deal, but in reality not a huge leap[ over the 16 cars, considering the changes made, so underneath, they are still pretty much the same.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 17:28 (Ref:3704794)   #198
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It is a big leap in horsepower and downforce but it is such a radical change that I suspect teams will take a few rounds to figure out how to really make use of the new formula. Every rally is different and you can't test everywhere.

That's what worries me a bit - they could get a lot quicker (and potentially more dangerous) very soon. You only have to look at what happened when the Group A era was introduced - everyone said how slow they were and yet they'd soon caught Group B times on most rallies.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 19:39 (Ref:3704830)   #199
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There was a lot of spin about the early Group A cars.

A lot of it started by Lanica and nini Russo! Taking journos to one side and saying things like, "the Delta GpA is already quicker on our test stage than the 037)

it took them perhaps a year or two to get there, but things had moved on so much, better diffs, tyres, usable power instead of peaky huge power. Like comparing an 80's turbo car to a modern one.

Both eras had their great drivers, some were in both eras. They are the true legends, like Miki, Alen, Kankkunen Salonen.
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Old 24 Jan 2017, 20:10 (Ref:3704834)   #200
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That's what worries me a bit - they could get a lot quicker (and potentially more dangerous) very soon. You only have to look at what happened when the Group A era was introduced - everyone said how slow they were and yet they'd soon caught Group B times on most rallies.

Don't agree, as handling is the thing that improved most over the years, so it is not really comparable. And the shells and cages are stiffer than any. I also doubt the speed to be an issue, but crowd control.
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