Da Matta & da Toyota

Glen · 4 Feb 2003, 09:53 (Ref:495830)

Both looking very promising. Da Matta has done 135 laps in two days, and ended up second only to the Ferraris on the time sheets. This team are going places - BAR should be worried, Jag are long gone!

Only testing... blah blah, disclaimer.

mac · 4 Feb 2003, 10:36 (Ref:495858)

I think I could run a reasonable F1 team with the amount of money they have.

Glen · 4 Feb 2003, 12:29 (Ref:495957)

Although not quite in the same super-league, BAR and Jaguar have both provide good examples of how to spend a lot of money in F1 for not much payback. If Toyota deliver on the promise currently being shown it will be a major achievement. If they beat BAR there will be a lot of p*ss*d off people at Honda!

**Adam43** · 4 Feb 2003, 13:03 (Ref:495994)

It could be just what Honda need...

neilap · 4 Feb 2003, 15:23 (Ref:496180)

Man, I read somewhere that Honda is planning a new motor for the race, ALREADY!!

. They have already had a few failures

. JV and JB are both dissatisfied with the motor

. According to Honda the motor they are running was a rush job to get the car on the track, Toyota had theirs in a car from last year

. So far Toyota is about a second faster than BAR at Barcelona

. I have a headache

Panic? Who's panicing? Not me! No way! This is just testing right, right?

I dont want to have a

on my head for another season. I may need two

if Toyota out does Honda in their second year. Honda better win the title before them...

Ok, I got that out, I feel better now, well not really.

Mr V · 4 Feb 2003, 15:27 (Ref:496186)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
I have a headache

Panic? Who's panicing? Not me! No way! This is just testing right, right?

Thought you might be worried Neil

shiny side up! · 4 Feb 2003, 15:31 (Ref:496189)

I'm with you, niel... but here's my concern: do you think the engine is really 1 second back from the Toyota? I'm not so sure, which could mean that that awesome chassis BAR made isn't all that awesome.

That's not really on the DaMatta topic though, sorry

neilap · 4 Feb 2003, 16:59 (Ref:496288)

I think Da Matta was doing what Ferrari and Mclaren were doing. They went for their absoulte fastest time. Maybe it was as much a test for DaMatta as it was for the car. As for BAR, I am not too sure about them. I read comments from Sato saying they are not going for lap times and from JV saying he does not know what fuel loads the other teams are running. These suggest to me that they are not going for all out lap times but instead still fine tuning parts of the car and the motor. Maybe they are doing more R&D for the real deal motor to debut before Melbourne.

Since Toy finished their new motor so long ago I am sure it is just about where it will be at the seasons start. I expect the Honda unit to be as powerful as any by years end but the start of the season is begining to look like last year!! Well after the "longest month in the year" we will know, until then, I/we will have to cross fingers and toes.

BootsOntheSide · 4 Feb 2003, 17:13 (Ref:496303)

Personally I wish a slow and painful death for both Honda nad Toyota, for what they've done in America. But I don't want this talented, nice guy to be taken down with them.

Da Matta is certainly doing well, but in the season the lack of track testing will be a massive handicap, and he'll be struggling in qualifying. Maybe by the end of the races he'll've got used to the tracks and can start lapping well.

I can see him beign scapegoated though, and it has to be borne in mind that comparing his results with Panis' is uneven, if he gets close regularly he's doing well.

JonesF1 · 4 Feb 2003, 17:27 (Ref:496312)

I remember Rennen saying that DaMatta smoked Ant one time, literally left him in the dust. The Toyotas are strong, theyll be championship contenders in a few years. Theres too much money being spent wisely for them not to be.

Jags and BAR dont have ****e for a budget but I agree they cant do much with what they got.

Speed · 4 Feb 2003, 18:18 (Ref:496351)

DaMatta is my card on that team..., I see CART and he was one of the bests there.

neilap · 4 Feb 2003, 20:13 (Ref:496481)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Personally I wish a slow and painful death for both Honda nad Toyota, for what they've done in America.

What did Honda do in America? I know what Toyota and CART did to them!! Just curious!

DaMatta was very consistent and fast last year. He was not spectacular IMO but his team was the most prepared and his team mate was not taking him out of the races. I dont see him being that impressive in the races.

Blue · 5 Feb 2003, 05:50 (Ref:496920)

I also read somewhere JV said that they would have new engine at Melborne. but, if they don't use current engine at race, what is the point to testing it? They are not ready to test new one, so testing parts only now?!

i will be just happy if they finish the race at Melborne

neilap · 5 Feb 2003, 06:28 (Ref:496934)

One of the only ways to get a good product is to use a prototype. I am sure Honda is still collecting data so they can build the best motor they can for Melbourne. Problem is, I think this should have been done from last year. I think the problem with that is the difference in motor designs.

It is better that Honda sorts out their issues now. Honda knows more than anyone else where they are at this stage. While others are setting fast times in testing we need to remember that this is just what it is, practice.

Glen · 5 Feb 2003, 09:45 (Ref:497085)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
I think Da Matta was doing what Ferrari and Mclaren were doing. They went for their absoulte fastest time.

Toyota said that they have yet to do any low fuel runs... I think the are sorted - I think the engine is right up there with the best, and reliable to boot... and it would seem that the new car is working well. Da Matta seems impressive - I'm sure he'll find it hard going to start with, especially with the one-shot qualifying, but there again we can look forward to lots of overtaking from him as he learns the tracks during the races. Neilap, I hope you are right about Honda finaly getting their act together - but right now I know who I'd put my money on out of those two teams.

DNQ · 5 Feb 2003, 10:39 (Ref:497121)

It'll be interesting to see how Toyota do. On one hand, I fully expect them to challenge McLaren and Ferrari (and Williams if they get their act together), but on the other I think they'll just muck around with Sauber and Jaguar.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Glen · 5 Feb 2003, 11:56 (Ref:497167)

They won't be challenging the top three! But BAR and Jaguar should be worried. Sauber and Renault will get a hard time from them too. No shortage of power in the Toyota and they are on the Michelins - a direct threat to Renault. If they can get a podium I'd be amazed, but regular points looks like a distinct possibility.

shiny side up! · 5 Feb 2003, 13:59 (Ref:497278)

Just reading Glen's post, and I thought a bit about the 'regular points' statement, and for the first time got depressed about the new points system. Scoring 'regular points' could mean 8th place every 2 weeks...

Glen · 5 Feb 2003, 14:14 (Ref:497292)

8th place is still top four team, if all the cars finish. If Toyota regularly get a point or two, then that would be a very serious breakthrough. Every time Toyota pick up 7th or 8th that's points taken away from their opposition.

golem · 6 Feb 2003, 07:38 (Ref:498131)

In the F1 magazine's interview with Gustav. Apparantly the TF102 was a conservative rush job. The magazine believed the car was the heaviest car out there, carrying the least amount of ballast. It used aluminium suspension parts instead of carbon fibre. Yet this car was able to keep astride with BAR, Jaguar etc without problems. It also recorded some really quick top speeds over the year.

By the sound of it, maybe BMW doesn't hold that much of a power advantage over the Toyota at all, from the basis they could manage what they did with such a conventional, maybe even poor chassis.

For this year, with Gustav leading the design crew from the ground up and all facilities sounding ready to produce whatever, whenever, I really do think it's the drivers that will be the weak spot and I know Panis isn't all that slow. I don't know too much about DaMatta though... I know he was good in Cart but as Montoya is quoted as saying, there may be about 6 quick guys in CART who can give you trouble but in F1 there's about 15. I really hope for one of my more favoured teams and designers that DaMatta will be one of those 6 and soon be 'the matter' that Ferrari has to contend with.

I just wish they'd kept McNish and Salo for one more year and brought DaMatta in to take over from the Finn. =/

Anyway, here's hoping the white and red streak will scare the living hell out of the Red Baron come March.

Snrub · 6 Feb 2003, 20:17 (Ref:498815)

At 125lbs, you always need ballast with Da Matta driver.

Montoya never really got a chance to see what Da Matta was made of. Go back a few years and CART had a better AVERAGE driver lineup than F1.

Mania · 7 Feb 2003, 04:04 (Ref:499093)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
Man, I read somewhere that Honda is planning a new motor for the race, ALREADY!!. They have already had a few failures . JV and JB are both dissatisfied with the motor . According to Honda the motor they are running was a rush job to get the car on the track, Toyota had theirs in a car from last year . So far Toyota is about a second faster than BAR at Barcelona . I have a headache

Does the phrase "I told you so" ring a bell?

All jokes aside though...The new Toyota looks good but I dont think we should read too much into their test times..last season they were also setting fast times during pre season testing...so you never know.

That said, Honda certainly hasnt had the best of times..again so far in testing. They havent even been reliable to speak nothing of out right pace.

If Toyota beats Honda - my word....Am I gonna gloat!!

neilap · 7 Feb 2003, 04:25 (Ref:499101)

Quote:

[i]If Toyota beats Honda - my word....Am I gonna gloat!! [/B]

Man, I was wondering what took you so long. I may have to change my screen name huh? Well I believe BAR has an Ace up its sleeve (no the other sleeve, way up there, no you cant see, its way up, by the armpit). If it does happen I would expect a major revamping of the team.

Valve Bounce · 7 Feb 2003, 05:02 (Ref:499111)

Look at it this way. I understad that the engine Honda used for their tests is not the engine they will use in Melbourne. Actually, there are another three weeks during which Honda can develop and refine their engine on the dyno before installing it onto a chassis. The way I see it, Honda needs to get reliability in their engine, and maybe that's what they are trying to do. After all they can simulate racing conditions from any track :loads and accel. and speeds from any track onto a dyno.

However, I do see a need for Hair-kiri if Toyota beats them this year.

Lee Janotta · 7 Feb 2003, 06:14 (Ref:499125)

We'll probably get to see Honda mechanics finishing the engine installations on the grid at this rate.

Or maybe they'll just pull an Andrea Moda, give the cars a push, and stand there making engine noises until they roll to a stop.

Dissapointing that Honda's F1 program have gone this far downhill. The last Mugen-Honda win was in '98, wasn't it?

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