ALMS Rnd 1: 12 Hours of Sebring 14-17 Mar 2007 - Page 11

russ250575 · 17 Mar 2007, 00:35 (Ref:1868697)

Interesting all this discussion about P1/P2 performance leveling / More competetive classing Petrol v Diesil.

I see people moaning about the differences as a bit strange really

P1 battle this weekend = Brand new Audi made to make the most of current rules v an old creation with a few updates and even older Lola now its pretty obvious the outcome there as we all know, now until you see the Audi up against a TOP Petrol team/factory (no disrespect) we will never really know the true differences.

Audi have Everything going for them Money, top drivers , R+D, Excellent drilled pit crew the list goes on..

Last season at PLM Creation turned up and gave them a good run for a while but not being a "Top" team full of money having to make use of what resource's they had to hand they failed to keep the fight going with slower not so well drilled pit stops a lower quality of drivers not having the right tyres

Also last season Dyson never really matched them with there brought Lolas an Engine that never seemed to have it in it just a general under performing car. So really who has had the package to go up against them and really fight them to see how much the differences are.

When you think Porsche can make a brand new PETROL car to P2 regs and be within 2 seconds I think you see a pattern develope Porsche + Brand new car made to make most of new regs (like Audi) Top Drivers (like Audi) R+D (like audi) Excellent pit crews (See the pattern) these guys have the same sort of gaps between them and the smaller teams like Horag

Where does this leave us ? IMO we need 2 classes but not seperated as they are now LMP1 needs to be the Big Boys Audi,Porsche,Acura,Peugeot, LMP2 the smaller boys Creation,Autocon,Horag'Lister,Pescorala Im sorry I know this will upset some (me inc) but if you dont have the money and support you cant play with the big boys(see Dyson in a funny way stepping down a class will probably make them stronger overall).

I just hope that come Le Mans we can see a good Pug v Audi Battle with the rest of P1 fighting for next best. I dont see this as Petrol v Diesil I see Big Boys/Budgets v Little Boys/Budget

Hope I havent upset to many of you I just getting fed up of the "Audi unfair Advantage Thing"

**skycafe** · 17 Mar 2007, 01:17 (Ref:1868727)

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ250575

but if you dont have the money and support you cant play with the big boys(see Dyson in a funny way stepping down a class will probably make them stronger overall).

The Porsche Spyders are $1.5 Million Each with spares, and Dyson has two. I don't think the Lola AER was that much, nor their previous cars, nor their R&S from forever ago. Did Dsyon really step down?

robert

chewymonster · 17 Mar 2007, 01:53 (Ref:1868746)

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ250575

Interesting all this discussion about P1/P2 performance leveling / More competetive classing Petrol v Diesil.

I see people moaning about the differences as a bit strange really

P1 battle this weekend = Brand new Audi made to make the most of current rules v an old creation with a few updates and even older Lola now its pretty obvious the outcome there as we all know, now until you see the Audi up against a TOP Petrol team/factory (no disrespect) we will never really know the true differences.

Audi have Everything going for them Money, top drivers , R+D, Excellent drilled pit crew the list goes on..

Last season at PLM Creation turned up and gave them a good run for a while but not being a "Top" team full of money having to make use of what resource's they had to hand they failed to keep the fight going with slower not so well drilled pit stops a lower quality of drivers not having the right tyres

Also last season Dyson never really matched them with there brought Lolas an Engine that never seemed to have it in it just a general under performing car. So really who has had the package to go up against them and really fight them to see how much the differences are.

When you think Porsche can make a brand new PETROL car to P2 regs and be within 2 seconds I think you see a pattern develope Porsche + Brand new car made to make most of new regs (like Audi) Top Drivers (like Audi) R+D (like audi) Excellent pit crews (See the pattern) these guys have the same sort of gaps between them and the smaller teams like Horag

Where does this leave us ? IMO we need 2 classes but not seperated as they are now LMP1 needs to be the Big Boys Audi,Porsche,Acura,Peugeot, LMP2 the smaller boys Creation,Autocon,Horag'Lister,Pescorala Im sorry I know this will upset some (me inc) but if you dont have the money and support you cant play with the big boys(see Dyson in a funny way stepping down a class will probably make them stronger overall).

I just hope that come Le Mans we can see a good Pug v Audi Battle with the rest of P1 fighting for next best. I dont see this as Petrol v Diesil I see Big Boys/Budgets v Little Boys/Budget

Hope I havent upset to many of you I just getting fed up of the "Audi unfair Advantage Thing"

Excellent point all around. Here is the ACO take on P2/P1. Basically very much what you have.

http://translate.google.com/translat...e.php?sid=3320

paul-collins · 17 Mar 2007, 02:25 (Ref:1868756)

On video for those of you not subscribing to Speed:

It would appear that Speed's OnBoard Pass is going to be paid for by Acura tomorrow.

I received this via a Speed TV email, I don't know what is up with it because Speed's Online Free Races / On Board Pass area isn't fully up to date. I logged on to the system, and lo and behold Sebring is listed in the Online Free Races, but there's nothing listed (at all!) for the On Board Pass...

Nevertheless, the email specifically says

SATURDAY 03/17 Highlights

AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES: 12 HOURS OF SEBRING (LIVE)
Free OnBoard Pass Event Sponsored By Acura
9:30AM ET AND 2:30PM ET

So, I'm inclined to think that it might show up in the OnBoard Pass section come race day.

http://gms.speedtv.com/

It costs nothing to register.

GT-Eins · 17 Mar 2007, 05:10 (Ref:1868854)

Odd to say but I would not try to rate current P1 or P2 performance-levels from the situation in the ALMS as the competition is not "World Class" to say it carefully (maybe a bit provocative to state this here).
I would like to wait for LM instead where we will have 2 Diesel-cars, the best current Petrol-engines (Audi-FSI in Swiss-Spirit, Judd in the Pescas). For P2 its a shame that both manufacturers are shy to face the real competition in LM or LMS (which is indeed the real world class series this year). At least one of them expressed his wish to do so in 2008 - which I appreciate a lot.

HORNDAWG · 17 Mar 2007, 05:59 (Ref:1868878)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-Eins

Odd to say but I would not try to rate current P1 or P2 performance-levels from the situation in the ALMS as the competition is not "World Class" to say it carefully (maybe a bit provocative to state this here).
I would like to wait for LM instead where we will have 2 Diesel-cars, the best current Petrol-engines (Audi-FSI in Swiss-Spirit, Judd in the Pescas). For P2 its a shame that both manufacturers are shy to face the real competition in LM or LMS (which is indeed the real world class series this year). At least one of them expressed his wish to do so in 2008 - which I appreciate a lot.

L.P.

cmk · 17 Mar 2007, 06:17 (Ref:1868884)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-Eins

Odd to say but I would not try to rate current P1 or P2 performance-levels from the situation in the ALMS as the competition is not "World Class" to say it carefully (maybe a bit provocative to state this here).
I would like to wait for LM instead where we will have 2 Diesel-cars, the best current Petrol-engines (Audi-FSI in Swiss-Spirit, Judd in the Pescas). For P2 its a shame that both manufacturers are shy to face the real competition in LM or LMS (which is indeed the real world class series this year). At least one of them expressed his wish to do so in 2008 - which I appreciate a lot.

Alright, I'll bite. P1 in the LMS certainly sees far, far more depth and variety. The presence of Peugeot is not to be underestimated, nor is that of Swiss Spirit, Pesca, Courage, Charouz etc. There is only one glaring problem with the P1 grid in the LMS this year; it's missing the unquestioned gold standard in the class.

To argue that P2 in the LMS is more world class than that of the ALMS is somewhat laughable. There are 2 manufacturers present in the ALMS, and none in the LMS. Beyond that, the teams involved (Penske, AGR etc.) are uniformly impressive. The LMS has a couple of teams (RML, perhaps ASM) that are even close to the pedigree of the ALMS squads. The factory Radical was one of the pacesetters in the LMS last year, for instance, and Penske did walk all over them at Laguna. Also see Horag pace in the ALMS. I quite like the P2 class in the LMS, as of last year at least; very delicately balanced and interesting...but it is not world-class, and the addition of one of those factory squads would reduce its enjoyability at this stage.

**PascaLM** · 17 Mar 2007, 09:17 (Ref:1868952)

Audi will win the 12 Hours of Sebring ; the ACO rules are written for diesel engines, this is obvious. The probability of failure is very low (crash or specific part breaking as Mercedes at LM 98).
We can only hope a good race from Porsche or Acura.
About Peugeot, they will only make the pole position at LM ; a 735 hp engine won't last a long and the race of the two 908 will be as a flash in the pan.

**Bentley03** · 17 Mar 2007, 09:42 (Ref:1868969)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PascaLM

About Peugeot, they will only make the pole position at LM ; a 735 hp engine won't last a long and the race of the two 908 will be as a flash in the pan.

Just to continue

briefly.........my opinion on this is that you are being overly pessimistic, Pascal!

Turn the boost up for qualifying, hope for the headline pole position, then turn the boost down for the race and hope for a respectable finish. Flash in the pan? No way, like a flash down the Mulsanne Straight more like!

Spyderman · 17 Mar 2007, 09:49 (Ref:1868972)

Here! Here! PascaLM

As you say, the rules are obviously in favor of the diesels.
I can't understand everyone's awe in Audi's oil burner dominating all. The rules make it so!!
Beside the obvious fuel efficiency of the diesel engine, how can you not expect a 5.5L TURBO engine to compete against a 4L Turbo or a 6L non- turbo and not blow them away?
If this situation continues (and unfortunately I think it will for a few more years), P1 will be limited to diesels. No sane non-diesel manufacturer is going to risk premeditated abuse until they have a fair shot at winning!

**PascaLM** · 17 Mar 2007, 09:52 (Ref:1868974)

Maybe they will turn the boost down, but don't miss the first hours ! (End of

).

**Bentley03** · 17 Mar 2007, 09:53 (Ref:1868975)

Not long to go, Motors TV coverage begins at 13:30 here in the UK.

Endurance-Info.com have put together a nice 'starting grid in pictures' which you can link to here!

**PascaLM** · 17 Mar 2007, 10:18 (Ref:1868984)

I think the GT2 class will give us the best show. I'm wondering how reliable the costumers Porsche are.

Spyderman · 17 Mar 2007, 10:31 (Ref:1869000)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PascaLM

I think the GT2 class will give us the best show. I'm wondering how reliable the costumers Porsche are.

I'm concerned about this too. I'm also a little dissapointed with their times, as they are substantially slower than those recorder at WDWT in January.
I know that they are preparing the ca for a 12H race, and that is what is really importnat, but.....?

spectre200 · 17 Mar 2007, 11:37 (Ref:1869052)

Apparently the #3 Corvette is painted white in honour of the Ron Fellows as per the R.F. special street car according to Globecast. That should make GT1 'look' more like a real race.

dj choc ice · 17 Mar 2007, 12:49 (Ref:1869091)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Not long to go, Motors TV coverage begins at 13:30 here in the UK.

Endurance-Info.com have put together a nice 'starting grid in pictures' which you can link to here!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!, why did i book my haircut for 1:30

paul-collins · 17 Mar 2007, 13:22 (Ref:1869108)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PascaLM

About Peugeot, they will only make the pole position at LM ; a 735 hp engine won't last a long and the race of the two 908 will be as a flash in the pan.

Why, did the Audi's 735 hp engine fail last year?

**Adam43** · 17 Mar 2007, 13:26 (Ref:1869110)

We're close now. We are now in the period where the is 23 hours of sport TV coverage that I'm interested in on in the next 16 hours

**PascaLM** · 17 Mar 2007, 13:35 (Ref:1869119)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Why, did the Audi's 735 hp engine fail last year?

600 hp will enough tonight.

**PascaLM** · 17 Mar 2007, 13:38 (Ref:1869120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!, why did i book my haircut for 1:30

Well, you'd better let this haircut down and put it in bunches ; but don't miss the race ! ;-)

veeten · 17 Mar 2007, 13:47 (Ref:1869127)

Omg!!! I didn't know that Andy Wallace has never raced in a Porsche before!

He's raced in almost every type of sportscar, but this is a shock, to me at least.

but hey, it's Dyson, so at least he knows they will give him their all.

**FIRE** · 17 Mar 2007, 14:04 (Ref:1869137)

Has Radio Le Mans a delay of a few minutes?

The359 · 17 Mar 2007, 14:04 (Ref:1869138)

I noticed that Autoracing Club Bratislava, Spyker Squadron, and Team Modena are least are starting from the pits.

Yikes: So did Konrad, Horag, Rahal Letterman, and some more!

**FIRE** · 17 Mar 2007, 14:05 (Ref:1869141)

Green!!!!

broadrun96 · 17 Mar 2007, 14:05 (Ref:1869142)

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectre200

Apparently the #3 Corvette is painted white in honour of the Ron Fellows as per the R.F. special street car according to Globecast. That should make GT1 'look' more like a real race.

the new white C6R looks sweet and what has happened to the Modena DBR9? didnt see them on the grid when they rolled out? k a pit start?

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