Fire Extinguisher for 2006?

[jonhill]

Hi

I (like every one else i guess) need a plumbed in extinguisher for 2006. Given I was perfectly happy with my handheld I'm looking for the cheapest system that will meet the regs for saloon circuit racer.

Anybody done the comparisons and research for the systems and prices and would care to share their conclusions?

thanks

jon

[greenamex2]

I use the Lifeline Mechanical Fire Marshall and been happy with it and the service from Lifeline. It is up for about 200 quid in Demow Tweeks.

I had a cheaper brand one before and it looked OK. However the mechanism kept siezing, not handy.

The best place to order one is at the Autosports show, but make sure you have a Demon Tweeks catalogue with you to check you aren't being done. Keep in mind DT give a 10% discount at the show, might be a bargaining point.

The SPA clubman system looks a bit of a bargain, 100 quid all in!

[graeme]

Lifeline are/were doing a 25% discount for members of certain clubs (BARC, etc)

[Chris Y]

Ok, strange/dumb question here.. I have a 2.25ltr fire extinguisher in my car, which is 'plumbed in' - i.e. it has decabon tubing coming out of the nozzle, leading to 2 separate nozzles in the engine bay and the cockpit footwell area, and a mechanical (pull cord) release...

BUT

.. it's still a 'handheld' extinguisher - i.e. it has handles. I presume this still qualifies as a 'plumbed in' system?

If so, then presumably all Jon needs, providing his extinguisher is a 2.25ltr bottle, is some tubing, some nozzles and a few clips..?

[flagwaver]

Not to sure about this one. Plumbed in systems have to totally discharge when the cable is pulled. So if you are using a "hand held" type of extinguisher the cables must have a none return system on them (ie the two handles have too remain in the discharge position.) I might be mistaken but not all "hand held" extinguishers nozles lend themselves to being plumbed in.
You will have to read the FIA/MSA regs to see what they define as a plumbed in system.

[greenamex2]

If Jon's extinguisher IS total discharge AND is has a flexible tube to cope with being used in it's side AND it is 2.25 litre then it could probably be converted.

Most hand helds arent and can't.

I'd be surprised if a scrutineer would let an extinguisher through that had a non return mechanism on the cables. I would have expected that it need to be built in to the firing mechanism.

Of course, as long as an extinguisher LOOKS like it complies...... But then it is your life.

[jonhill]

Hi

I went with the 2.25 lifeline budget system. They've this little regulations page:

http://www.lifeline-fire.co.uk/extin...egulations.htm

As graeme says there's a 25% discount, so its not too expensive all in. My handheld is 100 years old so it was time to replace anyway.

Now, i just need my new compliant harness and my new compliant helmet...

thanks

jon

[Chris Y]

My extinguisher does have a 'total discharge' system of sorts - a kind of plastic clip that stops the handles coming apart once they've been squeezed together. Not exactly high-tech, but then again neither is the car

The wording in the Blue Book isn't really all that specific when it comes to defining 'plumbed in', but it does say this:

"Hand held extinguishers which have been adapted, by addition of pull cables, rarely have the capability of being operated in varying positions, and are not acceptable".

The last bit seems to signify that a more purpose-built bottle is required.

[Al Weyman]

I recently bought a 2000 system from Rally Design at a very reasonable £84.50 + VAT, the scruts seemed to like it OK.

[archibold]

We've used the electrically operated systems for couple of years (Lifeline 2000) they are more expensive but have the advantage of just needing a battery and not constant cable maintenance...

Archibold

[Al Weyman]

Cable maintenence, whats that? Fit and forget. A cable system was still operating alright on my old car that I parked up for ten years and have refurbished, only reason I changed it was for the new regs. I dunno I never really trust those electrical ones you will never know if they work ok till you need them, at least with a cable operated it is a mechanical connection and you can see what is happening. Each to their own I guess :-).

[greenamex2]

I give my cables a squirt of WD40 once a year. Other than that no problems.

I have seen several examples of battery powered extinguishers go off accidentally, or not go off at all as a result of a stray/chaffed wire. Also my fireman friend said that they don't really trust them.

[TEAM78]

Are the fire extinguisher regs changing for next year? I know the seat belt harness width reg is changing

[Al Weyman]

Think they have to now be plumbed in.

[R59]

Originally Posted by TEAM78

Are the fire extinguisher regs changing for next year? I know the seat belt harness width reg is changing

Yep, plumbed in for saloons.

Seatbelts to have FIA approval, and year of manufacture labels.

You should read your blue book, and the "Motorsports Now" mag as it contains the updates. The blue book contains information like "will be mandatory from Jan 2006" etc.. in some areas.

I've bought a Lifeline mechanical system (good ol' GPR for a deal!), and I will still defy the scrutineers to throw me out for the additional ABC extinguisher that I will carry. If I can find a FIA legal powder (which I am told is in development), I'll carry one of those to complement the AFFF which has been seen to be as effective as p-ing on the fire by the amount of burned out wrecks that we've seen since BCF/Halon was banned.

Seatbelts - get the best you can afford - save up for another week if you have to! I'm using the Schroth belts to go with my HANS, but there's another thread that we've done to death already.

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

3inch or 2inch belts as I thought Hans had to be 2 inch bit dont they say we have to have 3 inch belts?

[R59]

FIA approved is the requirement.

The HANS type belts are 3" to the adjuster, then 2" over the HANS and to the mounting points.

They are ONLY FIA approved when used with a HANS, therefore, if you share a car, or run it in multi-driver races - each driver must wear a HANS.

I'm sure there will be some jobsworths that don't know the full regs, and I'll (and other HANS users) get some grief at some point next year.

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

Ha Ha 3 inch down to 2 inch what on earth is the point, only the FIA could dream that one up!

[johnw]

You can use 3" belts with Hans Rob. I do, they're fine.

[Al Weyman]

I hope so cause I bought a hans type helmet just in case they make it mandatory and brand new 3 inch belts only a couple of months ago trying to plan in advance.

[brickkicker]

Well it is good to see this being discussed so that you are all ready for next year, (got my scrutineers hat on now )
Just wanted to add my 2 cent's worth, there has been a mention of the battery systems, if im honest I much prefer the cable sort. They are less prone to failing. I have seen a lot of battery ones not work, or go off by accident and you have to remember to switch them on and also to replace the battery.
As racing59 said, make sure you keep looking at motorsport now, there is a big section in the latest edition pointing out a lot of the new changes, and also read this years blue book as they do point out changes for this year and very importantly make sure you read the 2006 book when you get it and dont just throw it in the corner of the room and forget about it.
Oh and one other point, if you are putting in your plumbed in version for the first time dont forget to put your stickers on

[R59]

Originally Posted by johnw

You can use 3" belts with Hans Rob. I do, they're fine.

I was recommended NOT to do that by Schroth.

The HANS device I have (bought earlier this year) is designed to be used with 2" shoulder belts. Using 3" increases the chance of the belts slipping off of the HANS, leading to loss of tension and loss of effectiveness of the belts.

When I asked why the HANS wasn't made to fit the 3" belts, it was because it would result in two broken clavicals in the event of an impact. Do you fancy losing the use of both arms, and then trying to get out of the car?

In the event of an accident John, and it goes wrong, would you say the same?

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

Sounds to me like Hans is not fully sorted yet then, I am sure they could make one that worked with the wider belts but would it render all the others obsolete.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Sounds to me like Hans is not fully sorted yet then, I am sure they could make one that worked with the wider belts but would it render all the others obsolete.

To make it work with the wider belts would mean a wider HANS and that would break your clavical's in an impact.

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

So why are the 2inch belts no longer legal then, thats the bit I don't understand, why the neccessity for 3 inch is it because the extra width will not dig into your body as much as the load is spread or is it a strength thing as I would have though if it was the latter then the Hans belts would have a weak spot.