The greatest F1 race drives of all time

[BTCC frog]

Following the recent discussion on the greatest races of all time, what, in your opinion, were the greatest single race drives by a driver?

I believe the greatest single race drive of all time was by Jim Clark in the 1963 Belgian GP. A great start to take the lead, then a dominant victory in treacherous conditions, on a classic circuit, while nursing a significant car problem. It had it all.

I also wrote a list of what I believe to be the greatest drives in F1 history here: https://f1frogblog.wordpress.com/202...s-of-all-time/

[S griffin]

There's too many to mention. Moss 61 Monaco and Senna 85 Portugal are two worthy candidates though

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bauble

Stirling Moss had so many epic drives in all classes of car that even restricting it to Grand Prix it is hard to make a choice.

I always think of Moss winning in Argentina in 1958 quite a good one.... especially given that so many think the "What lap should I stop for tyres" (or in this case not stop) or the very concept of tyre strategy to be something only found in modern day GPs.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bauble

...but Tazio Nuvolari's 1935 win in an Alfa Romeo, beating the state sponsored Auto Union and Mercedes Benz, with a car crude by comparison, took place before I was born, yet for me it is one of he great races 'of all time'.

this right!

most if not al race wins are important for the driver and team. its personal, competitive, and commercial...not that these are bad things mind you.

but few races, particularly when looked at through the lens of history, take on an added level of societal importance.

[rbs]

I was never a Moss fan but his win in the 57 Pescara GP would be high on my list as would Jacky Ickx Race of Champions win in the wet. The pass on Nikki Lauda round the outside of Paddock was outstanding.

[S griffin]

One drive I was impressed by was Hulkenberg in the 2013 Korea GP. He really got a lot out of that car. It may not be an obvious one, but it should be recognised as something that deserves to be remembered. He didn't get many opportunities like that in that Sauber due to various things not going his way through the season, but that day he reminded everyone of his talent

[Adam43]

I’m going to add a few. Jim Clark 1967 Monza. Wanted to through this one in as it was a great come back. On a circuit where it was felt the driver couldn’t make a great difference he did.

And we have to mention the drive that defined the race that won the 10-10ths best race bracket that crmalcolm did for us. Fangio’s 1957 Nurburgring masterclass.

I would also like to suggest Donington 1993. If only for Aysedasi. Maybe it is just he greatest lap, but it was supported by just being much better than the rest for the rest of the race. Although interesting that Senna said his first win at Estoril years before was much better.

Not sure they are the best, but they came to mind.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I’m going to add a few. Jim Clark 1967 Monza. Wanted to through this one in as it was a great come back. On a circuit where it was felt the driver couldn’t make a great difference he did.

And we have to mention the drive that defined the race that won the 10-10ths best race bracket that crmalcolm did for us. Fangio’s 1957 Nurburgring masterclass.

I would also like to suggest Donington 1993. If only for Aysedasi. Maybe it is just he greatest lap, but it was supported by just being much better than the rest for the rest of the race. Although interesting that Senna said his first win at Estoril years before was much better.

Not sure they are the best, but they came to mind.

Not trying to be controversial, and certainly not trying to minimise Ayrton's skills in any way, but my understanding was that Senna had the benefit of an advanced and superior traction control over Williams etc at that time that certainly gave him an advantage in the conditions at Donnington that day.

McLaren suggest same in their Heritage article on their website.... it talks of the McLaren subsidiary, exclusive to McLaren Tag Electronics system, others could not match at that time.

....Featuring a battery of advanced new technologies, the car was the company’s most sophisticated design yet with new electronic engine management software, chassis control, data acquisition and telemetry systems. Designed and manufactured by McLaren Group subsidiary TAG Electronic
Systems exclusively for McLaren, these systems were accompanied by a new, lightweight electronic control panel in the cockpit. Fitted into a new, improved chassis, the fuel-efficient Ford HB engine gave McLaren cause to be optimistic. It was hoped that whatever the car lacked in outright horsepower it would make up for with even better preparation and engineering, clever race strategies, chassis and electronics from TAG. The new car was also to feature even more advanced active suspension set-up and traction control.

And Ayrton Senna would drive it....

An extract from https://www.mclaren.com/racing/herit...mclaren-mp4-8/

I do note that the McLaren engine may have been a bit of a weakness as a detriment / trade off.

Maybe the fact I was never a huge fan of Senna is clouding my judgement. I was in awe of his skills and ability, especially in qualifying, but felt he was something of a flawed genius. He is not the only superstar of all eras I thought / think of in this way.

Just sayin'.....

[coppice]

Of races I have actually seen from trackside , Mansell's win in 1987 at Silverstone was pretty memorable , especially as I was in Stowe grandstand ,and it was at Stowe where that overtake happened.

An often overlooked drive was Keke Rosberg in the shed of a Theodore at the Daily Express Trophy 1978 , in monsoon conditions. Only a non championship race,. some will say, but one that had Peterson , Lauda, Andretti and Hunt . Keke was 3 seconds slower than pole in the dry ...

Great drives do not always produce great spectacles, but that often overlooked genius of a driver , Jackie Stewart certainly made his mark at the Nurburgring in 1968 - 34 seconds in the lead on lap 2 , and won by 4 MINUTES.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by E.B

Not trying to be controversial, and certainly not trying to minimise Ayrton's skills in any way, but my understanding was that Senna had the benefit of an advanced and superior traction control over Williams etc at that time that certainly gave him an advantage in the conditions at Donnington that day. …

Not sure about the superiority, but it did have TC, which is why Senna said he thought Portugal was better.

And I’m not sure any of the TV systems were that amazing, certainly relative to later on, but it must have helped.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by coppice

Great drives do not always produce great spectacles, but that often overlooked genius of a driver , Jackie Stewart certainly made his mark at the Nurburgring in 1968 - 34 seconds in the lead on lap 2 , and won by 4 MINUTES.

I wanted to chose a race in which someone just dominated. That is a good example.

I was also drawn to a race where there were two drivers ahead of he field going much faster than the others. Very gladiatorial. The one that prevailed (or maybe the other) would get their drive submitted. I thought of Stewart Rindt at Silverstone (although ruined by Lotus!) or a Schumacher Hakkinen when they just destroyed everyone at Suzuka.

[JamesH]

Button in Canada 2011?

[chunterer]

JPM v Kimi at Imterlagos in 2004 was pretty good!

Alonso vs everyone at Valencia 2013.

Just a couple of suggestions.

[crmalcolm]

I think there are many ways one could address the question - and all equally valid in approach.

Are you looking for the one drive where a driver was superior to the rest of the field?
A contested race between two (or more) drivers, where one of them eventually gained an advantage?
A recovery from a poor position to take points (or win) when it seemed a lost cause?

For example (looking at the GROAT semi-finals):

The final was between 1957 Nürburgring and 2008 Interlagos. Both of these are considered as great races because the result was in doubt throughout (race or WDC). There was a sporting contest that kept the attention of the viewer, and the eventual winners in each case was not obvious in advance.

But, Fangio's 1957 drive could also be considered a great drive when you look at how he performed compared to the rest of the field.
2008 Interlagos is not the same though. I feel it is hard to look at any one driver's performance on the day as having any greatness, or that they were the class of the field.

An interesting consideration in the context of this thread comes at 1979 Dijon.
The race itself is considered as a GROAT contender due to the contest between Gilles Villeneuve and René Arnoux. The pair crossed the line separated by 2/10ths of a second.
But - which was the greatest drive that day?
Arnoux's recovery through the field having dropped to ninth at the end of the first lap?
Villeneuve's early lap battles with Jabouille in a less favoured car, eventually burning up his tyres in the process. Then fighting off Arnoux at the end of the race to take second?
Or Jean-Pierre Jabouille finishing 15 seconds ahead of the field and being untouchable in the latter half of the race?

[BTCC frog]

I have extended my article to include a top 50 greatest drives, now with far more races from the earlier eras of Formula 1, including some of the suggestions from members of tentenths, to the point that it now seems a little unbalanced in the other direction. The top five is unchanged.


https://f1frogblog.wordpress.com/202...s-of-all-time/

[Angus Theape]

The one that is always passed over is Jim Clark in the French GP at Clermont Ferrand in 65. Probably because it looked so easy and flag to flag from pole, but in probably the oldest chassis in the race with probably the worst Coventry Climax V8 in the race. An engine and car that lost to Jo Siffert's private Brabham in the flat out blind at Enna later in the summer.

[Trev Campbell]

One that hardly ever gets mentioned because there was no result at the end of it. Is the 1987 Japanese Grand Prix. Prost got a flat on the first lap and had to crawl to the pits. Came out dead last. Then proceeded to drive himself to 7th (Just outside the points) with a fastest lap over 1.5 seconds faster than anyone else. I think i read somewhere that Prost ranked it as one of his greatest drives.

[Aysedasi]

I guess it just doesn't have the 'newsworthiness' of Max driving from near the back of the field to first inside 12 laps..... I wonder what the likes of Alain and Ayrton think (would have thought) about the scourge of DRS....?

[BTCC frog]

Very interesting suggestions. The Jim Clark drive mentioned was one I did not consider at all for the list, having no idea he was running the oldest chassis and engine. But most Jim Clark drives could be contenders in terms of looking easy but still being extremely skilful. Of every driver in history, I would say he was the one for whom it seemed the most strange when he was beaten by an opponent.

The Alain Prost drive was one I considered for the list, as although he wasn't the sort of driver who put in spectacular performances he was still one of the greatest of all time, and so I wanted at least one Alain Prost drive. It came down to Kyalami 1982 or Suzuka 1987 and I chose Kyalami, although perhaps I could have included both.

And while Verstappen in Spa 2022 was an outstanding drive, surely the best of the season so far, for some reason it just didn't seem as impressive as Hamilton's similar victory in Brazil last year, probably because Hamilton had to beat his rival, who was starting at the front, to do it, whereas with Leclerc starting from the back and the Ferrari much less competitive than usual Verstappen didn't seem to have as much to do. But it was still perhaps borderline worthy of a place had it happened before I wrote the list. I think he probably would have won anyway even without DRS as Spa is generally among the easier tracks to overtake on, but do agree with you that Formula 1 should be looking to remove it (at least on some tracks, Spa being one of them). And Prost said in 2017 that Formula 1 should remove DRS, and that was the year that I believe it was most needed.

[chillibowl]

off topic so please move if others are interested in pondering on this...

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I wonder what the likes of Alain and Ayrton think (would have thought) about the scourge of DRS....?

good question!

from an old topgear interview:

TG.com: DRS? I suspect it's not your thing...
AP: I cannot like it. But at least it creates more movement, more overtaking, more ‘show'. The question is, should F1 be more technical and more open? We will have new engines and new technology in 2014 [when the 1.6-litre turbo V6 arrives] but the people who do the best work should have an advantage. If my engine is better, I should have an advantage on the track.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/mot...es-alain-prost

from that brief excerpt from Prost, made many years after his F1 driving career ended, sounds like he is against DRS but understands the need for it but like many of us would hope that F1's other tech regulations could be remedied so it was no longer needed for the 'show'.

as a team owner/principle/advisor, for mainly mid to lower field teams, i suspect he would gladly take the DRS advantage if it helped his teams compete against the better financed players.

Senna on the other hand, far more mercurial imo, i suspect would have hated it more when used against him (a way for lessor drivers to compete with him) but would have more then fine using it when it was to his advantage?

i would like to think both drivers would have been more tactical with it though. several times now (less this year) we have seen Max follow behind a backmarker through a DRS activation zone in order to actually improve his lap time. use track knowledge to turn a disadvantage into an advantage.

Prost for sure would have found even more ways to use DRS to his advantage even as the driver in a positional lead.

[S griffin]

Considering both Prost and especially Senna were so against traction control, I think they would have hated DRS too. They detested anything that took down the skill level of driving an F1 car. Considering how good an overtaker Senna would have been insulted by it. I note that both Mansell and Montoya, two of the greatest overtakers of all time, as so against it too.

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Prost for sure would have found even more ways to use DRS to his advantage even as the driver in a positional lead.

Another great drive of Prost's that does not get a lot of recognition, because it was won with smart's not with being spectacular is the 86 San Marino GP. In the days of variable Turbo Boost, it was common for drivers to run out of fuel, being too greedy with the boost at some GP's. IIRC correctly he drove the last 20 laps with a negative fuel balance and ran out of fuel as he crossed the line. His teammate Rosberg ran out 2 laps from home.

He didn't always get it right tho. I think it was Hockenheim the same year he ran out of fuel.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by E.B

Not trying to be controversial, and certainly not trying to minimise Ayrton's skills in any way, but my understanding was that Senna had the benefit of an advanced and superior traction control over Williams etc at that time that certainly gave him an advantage in the conditions at Donnington that day.

He did... his right foot...
Best traction control EVER...!

[Adam43]

I don't know about him having the best in that race. As James Hunt said during the weekend, the Williams is as good a car in the wet as it is in the dry. Also Benneton had the advantage of being closer to Ford and easier to develop its TC. How relative they actually were is probably impossible to know.

Whatever, Senna himself said he thought Estoril '86 was much better because he didn't have TC.

[S griffin]

Yes, I would agree with Senna that his first win in Estoril 85 was better. He had to control his car with his right foot, without traction control and with a lot of power from the turbo engine to boot. Donington 93 was still a great drive, but not at the same level