[Tech Issue] Stepped-noses and double DRS banned for 2013

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Indeed. The thing with F1 cars is that they are not trying to just be aerodynamically efficient at high speeds, unlike the many cars that attempt to break the land speed record. They also have to be aerodynamically efficient at lower speeds i.e. they must also be able to go around corners quickly.

Two different concepts of efficiency:

Land speed record car = low drag, zero lift. Efficiency is about the lowest drag possible, lift forces in any direction are undesirable and possibly catastrophic.

F1 car = high lift, Efficiency is about maximising the lift/drag ratio inevitably there will be lots of drag, especially with a high down force setup where the lift has to be maximised at almost any cost.

(For the sake of clarity lift is the force perpendicular to the direction of airflow and drag is the force parallel to the airflow.)

[Marbot]

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Two different concepts of efficiency:

Land speed record car = low drag, zero lift. Efficiency is about the lowest drag possible, lift forces in any direction are undesirable and possibly catastrophic.

F1 car = high lift, Efficiency is about maximising the lift/drag ratio inevitably there will be lots of drag, especially with a high down force setup where the lift has to be maximised at almost any cost.

(For the sake of clarity lift is the force perpendicular to the direction of airflow and drag is the force parallel to the airflow.)

What pray, is downforce and negative lift?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

What pray, is downforce and negative lift?

Well, negative lift is the opposite of positive lift and downforce is the opposite of upforce. So it all balances out rather nicely.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Well, negative lift is the opposite of positive lift and downforce is the opposite of upforce. So it all balances out rather nicely.

So where exactly does a F1 car generate high lift?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

So where exactly does a F1 car generate high lift?

Valencia! Just ask Mark Webber, he'll tell you all about it.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Valencia! Just ask Mark Webber, he'll tell you all about it.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by wnut

What pray, is downforce and negative lift?

Downforce is an aerodynamic force perpendicular to the airflow, in aerodynamics it's called lift whether it's up, down or sideways, a fact I suspect you are well aware of and are just taking the p because it's fun.

I used to design aerobatic air craft and I can assure you that the lift force can be in almost any direction but if it's the component of the aerodynamic force perpendicular to the direction of the airflow it's always called lift.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Downforce is an aerodynamic force perpendicular to the airflow, in aerodynamics it's called lift whether it's up, down or sideways, a fact I suspect you are well aware of and are just taking the p because it's fun.

I used to design aerobatic air craft and I can assure you that the lift force can be in almost any direction but if it's the component of the aerodynamic force perpendicular to the direction of the airflow it's always called lift.

I am kind of taking the p.

On an airfoil performance table, I would expect to read lift. However once we have turned said airfoil over and bolted it on to a car it becomes negative lift or downforce. Half the saloons, do actually generate (positive) lift and everyone starts getting confused about what they are talking about. Just tend to use downforce and negative lift to prevent confusion!

You are however strictly correct.