Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 Oct 2012, 07:02 (Ref:3149770)   #26
formerf1champ
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Australia
Vettel's gearbox preparing bench
Posts: 1,030
formerf1champ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=louonline;3149748
If it won't happen it'll be for one of two reasons ( or both!); they want too much money or they don't have the balls to take on the challenge of the Mount.

Actually, on reflection I'd like to think they have the balls, its just a question of money [/QUOTE]Bathurst is also not a big, glamorous city.
.
formerf1champ is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 07:48 (Ref:3149792)   #27
louonline
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 290
louonline should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerf1champ View Post
Bathurst is also not a big, glamorous city.
.
--------------------------------------
LOL, it's a question of glamour now as well!

I think most real racing drivers would trade a weekend's glamour to be here giving Jenson Button a run for his money!

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201103/r738408_6017241.jpg

You can read the story and watch video at this link:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...te=centralwest
louonline is offline  
__________________
Regards,
Lou
--------------------------------------
Don't drive faster than your Angel can fly.
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 10:19 (Ref:3149872)   #28
SouthAussie94
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Australia
Adelaide
Posts: 22
SouthAussie94 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There are a number of reasons why F1 at Bathurst would NEVER happen!

1. The track just wouldn’t be safe for F1. This isn't a matter of whether drivers have the guts to race at Bathurst, it’s a matter of safety.
Yes, Monaco isn't exactly a safe circuit, but Bathurst would be on another level altogether. For the most part Monaco has zero run off, however the vast majority of the corners are 'slow'. The only 'fast' corners on the circuit would be Massenet, the Tunnel, Tabac and the Swimming Pool.
This is compared to Bathurst were the vast majority of corners have zero run off and are much 'faster' than those in Monaco.

While Motorsport is inherently dangerous and those competing understand and accept these risks, it doesn’t mean they should put their lives at risk by competing at a circuit that isn't suited to their particular racing series. You only have to look at the Formula Ford accident last weekend to see what could potentially happen in a collision involving open wheelers. Yes, F1 cars have significantly more safety devices than a Formula Ford, however at the same part of the circuit where the accident occurred, they would have been travelling significantly faster.

In order to make the track 'safe' for F1, much of the character would be lost. Walls would need to be moved, run off installed. Overall the track would suffer as a result.

2. It would likely be boring!! I just don't think that Bathurst would be suited to the style of racing typically seen in Formula One, most likely resulting in a precession. Cars would unlikely be able to follow each other closely across the top of the Mountain, spreading the field apart. Yes it would be spectacular seeing a race there, however I think that on track action would be severely lacking

3. It’s far too remote. I haven't been to Bathurst however I imagine that there wouldn’t be the number of hotels to accommodate the large numbers of people that the race would attract. Yes, large numbers would camp as they do for the 1000, however I can't imagine that cooperates, teams and drivers would be willing to do so. Does the town have enough accommodation for these people?
SouthAussie94 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 10:53 (Ref:3149882)   #29
louonline
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 290
louonline should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
"3. It’s far too remote. I haven't been to Bathurst however I imagine that there wouldn’t be the number of hotels to accommodate the large numbers of people that the race would attract. Yes, large numbers would camp as they do for the 1000, however I can't imagine that cooperates, teams and drivers would be willing to do so. Does the town have enough accommodation for these people?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mate you should come and have a look before commenting.
2 and 1/2 hours from Sydney by road is hardly in the middle of the Simpson Desert!

As for accommodation you have Orange, Blayney, Cowra, Mudgee, Kandos, Rylstone, Oberon, Wallarawang, Lithgow, Blackeath and a few other small towns within one hours drive.
This year we had over 200,000 for the V8, I'm sure we could handle a few more in the district.

As for the "safety" thing, waste of time commenting, its the same old argument.

If you've never been to Bathurst you should make an effort to come next year, I'm sure you'll get a pleasant surprise
louonline is offline  
__________________
Regards,
Lou
--------------------------------------
Don't drive faster than your Angel can fly.
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 11:27 (Ref:3149895)   #30
SouthAussie94
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Australia
Adelaide
Posts: 22
SouthAussie94 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by louonline View Post
2 and 1/2 hours from Sydney by road is hardly in the middle of the Simpson Desert!
Quote:
Originally Posted by louonline View Post

As for accommodation you have Orange, Blayney, Cowra, Mudgee, Kandos, Rylstone, Oberon, Wallarawang, Lithgow, Blackeath and a few other small towns within one hours drive.


2.5 hours driver, 1 hour drive, its still a long distance. In context to the size of the country it isn’t, but it would still be enough to deter a large number from attending. A large number of corporates attend a Grand Prix simply so they can say they attended. They have little to no interest in the actual race. I guarantee the vast majority of these people wouldn’t be willing to travel any more than 30 minutes to the track. Without these corporates the financial viability of the race would be in jeopardy.

The French Grand Prix at Magny Cours was dropped due to the lack of nearby hotels and the distance required to be travelled to attend. This deterred many corporates from attending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by louonline View Post
As for the "safety" thing, waste of time commenting, it’s the same old argument.
How was it a waste of time? I don't think you realise that the safety aspect is THE MAIN aspect of a race not occurring. The lack of accommodation can be worked around, however if the track isn’t safe, a race won't occur.

After Jenson Button completed his demo run, he said that he believed the entire run from The Cutting to the beginning of the Esses would be FLAT OUT in an F1 car ie: This entire section would be run at close to, if not more than 300km/h.

Now imagine an F1 car runs slightly wide and clips a wall. Wheels would likely come off, resulting in no brakes. We would then have a driver in a monocoque, hurtling along the top of the Mountain at close to 300km/h with no brakes and half his car missing. Assuming he wasn’t injured in the initial impact, there is every possibility of him being injured as the accident continues.

No imagine there are 23 other F1 cars all in close proximity. The car hits the wall and rebounds out onto the track, hitting another (or several more) car/s.

See why it wouldn’t be safe?

Safety is the MAJOR issue!!
SouthAussie94 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 12:03 (Ref:3149916)   #31
louonline
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 290
louonline should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fans drive here from W.A, N. T. to be here.

LOL, to any race fan driving to the venue is half the fun.

Why don't you drive over here yourself any other time of the year and do a few laps around the Mount, I'm sure you'll come away with a different attitude

There is an airport at Bathurst (and Orange).
Actually the big knobs fly directly to the Mount by helicopter!

"Safety is the MAJOR issue!!"

.....Don't drive faster than your Angel can fly.
louonline is offline  
__________________
Regards,
Lou
--------------------------------------
Don't drive faster than your Angel can fly.
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 12:11 (Ref:3149923)   #32
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,040
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They investigated Bathurst for a World Sportscar race around 1990, and the general concencus was that there wouldn't be much of a mountain left after they'd finished making it suitable for them

Jackie Stewart inspected the track for F1 in the late 70s, it was a topic of conversation with Chris Economaki during the 1979 Bathurst telecast.... Chris basically said don't ruin the track for the sake of an F1 race

The same rule applies now in my opinion
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 12:14 (Ref:3149925)   #33
SouthAussie94
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Australia
Adelaide
Posts: 22
SouthAussie94 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by louonline View Post
Fans drive here from W.A, N. T. to be here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louonline View Post

LOL, to any race fan driving to the venue is half the fun.


But the corporates aren't 'fans' as such. For a good chunk of them the race is an inconvenient distraction that’s disrupts their socialising. They don’t go to see the race, they go to be SEEN. Its these people that spend the big dollars to attend that help to make the event viable.

Without them the event doesn’t bring in as much money and will fail. At the end of the day it all comes down to money (As long as the track is SAFE!!)

The average motorsport fan would be willing to travel a fair distance to attend the race. You don’t need to convince these people to attend.

In your own words, why is safety not an issue? I've told you why I believe it is, now you tell me why it isn’t..





And I do plan on getting to Bathurst soon. Hopefully I’ll be heading up for the 12 Hour next year. I’m in Adelaide so it’s a fair hike but it’ll be worth it.. Hopefully!
SouthAussie94 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 13:14 (Ref:3149957)   #34
MagVanisher
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,396
MagVanisher should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMagVanisher should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm not a F1 fan but, modifying a track for the sake of Formula One is idiotic and a waste of money.

I guess Sir Jackie Stewart is right about preserving Bathurst. I mean, what could be worse than shortening this famous track?
MagVanisher is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2012, 19:36 (Ref:3150090)   #35
Purist
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Wichita, Kansas, USA
Posts: 5,892
Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!Purist is going for a new world record!
SA94, you must have missed my post, as I clearly gave examples from current F1 circuits that are NOT Monaco.

Regarding Monaco though, it doesn't matter that many of the corners are slow. There are a number of points around the lap where corner entry speed is plenty high to have some ugly results. Ste. Devote and Massenet arrive at 170-175-mph in an F1 car. You have the run through the Turnnel, culminating in the 180-mph approach to the chicane, with that attenuated barrier just waiting there. You can nail the guardrails at Tabac or Piscine at 150-mph or so.

And while Monaco is slow, Montreal and Melbourne certainly are NOT. Melbourne, which I noted has several trouble areas, has a record lap average speed of over 140-mph! At Albert Park, the run from Turn 2 to 3 is curved, with no run-off, and sees speeds of up to 185-mph. The exit of Turn 5, a 150-mph corner, has no run-off. The approach to Turn 6 is bent, has no run-off, and the cars just top 175-mph going into there. The exit of Turn 7 has not run-off. Turn 8, a 160-mph corner, has no run-off. Turn 10 has no run-off, nor does the 185-mph run to Turn 11. Finally, the run from Turn 12 to 13, with that kink in the middle of it, has basically no run-off, with speeds topping out at around 185-mph again along that stretch.

Montreal isn't as fast on the average, but it does have some nasty, quick, and tricky corners, plus a handful of very fast "straights". I pointed out the bend where Kubica had his wipe-out in 2007 on the approach to the Turn 10 hairpin (185-mph in an F1 car). There's "Champions Wall", which I mentioned as well (about 90-mph on exit). Here is a look at that Star Mazda crash that occurred at Turn 5 (155+mph curve in F1).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRXKt1G5fec

And if we're going to make such a big deal about safety, how about a damn thought for those Valencia marshals who were trying to remove Vettel's car with the field going past at speed through that 150-190-mph series of esse bends on the final leg of the lap! While we're at it, why wasn't the frickin' caution thrown quickly while the marshals were exposed, wrestling with the stricken cars at Ste. Devote at Monaco earlier this year?!

I'm sorry, but all the talk and action has just about UNconvinced me that safety is THE principal concern in F1, when put next to the corporate concerns you keep harping on about. It just so happens that wrecks beyond a certain level of nastiness are bad for F1's image, and losing drivers on a regular basis makes it harder for F1 to build its brand by having "personalities" fans can follow and become enamored with. I'm overstating it some, I know, but still, the primary concern is "the show", and safety just happens to be a convenient excuse in a lot of cases.

BTW, when F1 was in Indy, Bernie stayed in Chicago. The "big wigs" will fly in if they have to, even if it is from a significant distance.
Purist is offline  
__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2012, 00:51 (Ref:3150671)   #36
Go Harder.
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Australia
Somewhere in the sticks...
Posts: 298
Go Harder. should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Had this discussion with a few mates last weekend while watching the 1000. We all agreed - Without major modifications, F1@Bathurst = Dead people.
Go Harder. is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2012, 00:58 (Ref:3150676)   #37
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Harder. View Post
Had this discussion with a few mates last weekend while watching the 1000. We all agreed - Without major modifications, F1@Bathurst = Dead people.
TBH, I don't really think that there was need for any discussion.
Marbot is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2012, 09:36 (Ref:3150801)   #38
formerf1champ
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Australia
Vettel's gearbox preparing bench
Posts: 1,030
formerf1champ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Harder. View Post
Had this discussion with a few mates last weekend while watching the 1000. We all agreed - Without major modifications, F1@Bathurst = Dead people.
With the possible exception of an ill-timed mechanical problem, only if you're not a careful driver.
formerf1champ is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2012, 14:48 (Ref:3150928)   #39
Paradise City
Veteran
 
Paradise City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bhutan
Dublin
Posts: 4,320
Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!Paradise City is going for a new world record!
F1 at Bathurst wouldn't be entertaining, it'd destroy a great track, it'd ruin it's mystique, it'd probably bankrupt the region, it'd be unsafe. The very idea. Ugh. An F1 hill-climb might be a different proposition but that's it.
Paradise City is offline  
__________________
If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse.
-Henry Ford
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[V8SC09R18] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000, Mt Panorama Bathurst NSW (Now with poll!) GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 699 13 Nov 2009 09:25
Bathurst Champions Opt For Experience In Sandown and Bathurst Enduros buza Australasian Touring Cars. 2 11 Apr 2005 11:43
Who's going to Bathurst? TMS Australasian Touring Cars. 39 21 Oct 2002 01:23
Bathurst Crash Test Australasian Touring Cars. 13 3 Oct 2001 11:32


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.