[BTCC] BTCC 2018 Rumours & Silly Season

[luckn002]

So that's already 2 new NGTC cars for 2018 - the Alfa and the new Type-R.

Possibly more if Welch Motorsport return too.

[3marinadrive]

Originally Posted by Londoner

Tell me, do you ever get bored of whinging and trolling? Let's take a trip through history, to the beginning of the BTCC modern era.

1991 - Will Hoy wins the title in a RWD BMW, but he's pushed all the way by John Cleland and Andy Rouse, in a FWD Vauxhall and Toyota respectively.

1992 - Tim Harvey wins the title in a RWD BMW, but both Cleland and Hoy, now in a FWD Toyota, have an excellent shot at the title going into the final race of the season - and we all know what happened there.

1993 - BMW go 1-2 in the championship courtesy of Smokin' Jo Winkelhock and Steve "the man's an animal" Soper, but let's not forget that had the Ford Mondeo debuted a few rounds earlier, Paul Radisich would've been in title contention. The Ford was easily the best car by the end of the season. Incidentally, all the other major teams have moved away from BMWs to FWD machinery.

1994 - Gabriele Tarquini in a FWD Alfa demolishes the field. Hell, the first five spots in the final standings are FWD cars. Aside from a mid-season stretch, RWD doesn't get a look in.

1995 - FWD reigns supreme with the top 11 spots in the final standings being FWD cars.

1996 - No one has an answer to Frank Biela in the 4WD Audi. The last season for the works BMW team sees them take 5th and 6th in the points.

1997 - Alain Menu demolishes the field in a FWD Renault. The 4WD Audis are pegged back substantially. Presumably you want this to happen again so the glorious Dynamics Hondas can dominate again.

1998 - 2000 - No RWD cars in the field.

2001 - ABG Motorsport enter a RWD Lexus to embarrassingly limited effect in the Touring Class. Everyone else has FWD machines.

2002 - A pair of BMWs are entered by Edenbridge Racing in the Production Class. Norman Simon battles the FWD Honda of James Kaye for the title and comes up second best. No-one in the Touring Class goes anywhere near RWD.

2003 - Edenbridge Racing enters a sole BMW for Michael Bentwood, who finishes 3rd in a diminished Production Class. Still no RWD in the Touring Class.

2004 - Edenbridge Racing enter a sole S2000 BMW for Justin Keen, who has a best finish of 9th at Brands Hatch, before disappearing from the grid after Oulton Park.

2005 - HPI Racing enter a pair of RWD Lexus to, once again, embarassingly limited effect, even with the diminished field this season.

2006 - A plethora of independents enter RWD Lexus, while Martyn Bell enters a BMW.

2007 - WSR switch to S2000 BMWs and Mat Jackson's family team also runs a BMW. Despite Jackson, Colin Turkington and Tom Onslow-Cole taking six wins between them, the title is between Plato and Giovanardi who are both in FWD cars. Highest placed RWD in the championship is Turks who finishes 5th.

2008 - Giovanardi dominates the year in a FWD Vauxhall. Jackson takes advantage of Plato's unreliable FWD SEAT to finish runner-up in the standings.

2009 - Turkington takes the first RWD title in 16 seasons (or 13 if we're counting Biela's title in the 4WD Audi). Even then, Plato and Giovanardi take him all the way to Brands (the best damn title decider in the three-race-per-round era). There are four RWD machines in the top 10.

2010 - A grand total of two RWD victories all year, both taken by Airwaves BMW. Neither them or WSR are anywhere near title contention.

2011 - FWD cars once again dominate the championship, Rob Collard is the only RWD driver in the top 10. No victories for RWD cars all season. Meanwhile, Rob Austin debuts the RWD NGTC Audi to limited effect bar Rockingham.

2012 - WSR bid farewell to the S2000 BMWs with 5th and 6th in the points for Collard and TOC. Neither make much impact on the overall title. Rob Austin Racing continue to develop their Audis.

2013 - Turkington does an absolute miracle job hauling the underdeveloped NGTC BMW to five race wins, but realistically he was never going to win the title. He is the only RWD driver in the top 10. Rob Austin enjoys a breakout season with that victory at Rockingham, but the Audi is never going to be a top car.

2014 - Turkington is the class of the field, but even then he can't wrap the title up until Brands. Collard takes a victory at Knockhill, and Rob Austin wins again at Rockingham. Still only two RWD cars in the top 10 standings overall.

2015 - WSR win a bunch of races with all three cars, but none of them are in title contention going into Brands. Top 5 in the championship all in FWD machinery. Rob Austin's Audis are now amongst the oldest cars in the field and it shows. Meanwhile, we have the absolute joke that was the Infiniti "works" team.

2016 - 8 drivers go into Brands with a shot at the title. 50/50 split between RWD and FWD and would you look at that, a FWD car wins the title.

So yeah, over 26 seasons, RWD cars have taken the title precisely five times (six if we're including the 4WD Audi of 1996) in the modern era. If RWD was so great, why did it die out during the Super Touring and BTC eras? And now that RWD is finally coming good, you want it pegged back?! Is 20 FWD titles not enough for you?

Hopefully this post finally silences this ridiculous argument.

(Long time lurker, first time poster. Hi all. )

So here's a couple of things to consider;

James Cole has been uncompetitive in every car he has every raced in BTCC

He has been comprehensively beaten by all of his team-mates

Recently he and Josh Price have suddenly been competitive.

It's easy to use the 'great job' excuse for Sutton and Plato because everyone knows they are very good drivers.

Ask any team boss in the BTCC paddock if they would take either Cole or Price on pure ability...not on budget...I'd be surprised if they would.

Make no mistake - they are both 'decent' drivers ...not useless ...but neither of them are top-line drivers.

I reckon if u ask all the team bosses their opinion on drivers it would be something like this;

Top Drivers - those who will win races regularly - those who could win you a championship RIGHT NOW.....(based on ability etc)

Turkington
Shedden
Neal
Plato
Jordan
Collard
Sutton
Ingram
Mat Jackson


Those who could win races RIGHT NOW....(based on ability etc)

Morgan
Goff
Hill
Moffat
Austin
Cook
Taylor-Smith
Newsham
Chilton

Those who might win races in the future.....(based on ability)

Epps
Proctor
Whorton-Eales
Butcher


I would be amazed if any of them said...

James Cole
Josh Price.....


They just are NOT top drivers.

James Cole taking the win at the weekend said everything about BTCC.

We all love the variety and unpredictability.

But when James Cole wins a BTCC race it's become a joke.

He is a very well funded but very average racing driver.

If you look at the 22 names listed above - some are well funded but talented - some less well funded but talented - some have very little funding but lots of talent ....

BTCC is the UK's highest-profile series.

The TV figures and attendance figures back that up.

I would love to see what the new TCR UK series will look like.

If it can promise fairer racing...

Less 'manipulated' results....

Racing whereby the likes of Goff, Hill, Cook, Morgan etc can be regularly competitive then maybe it will be more appealing.

Come on Mr. Gow....

Stop taking the mickey.

This is silly!

[Sodemo]

What happened to that revolutionary recovery truck the BTCC was harping on about last year?

[Mark0994]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

TCR car switched to the 2.0 for this year.

No. TCR car still have 1.75 engine.
http://tcr-series.com/index.php/entr...iulietta-tcr-2

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What happened to that revolutionary recovery truck the BTCC was harping on about last year?

It's still there, still being used (it got some use at Knockhill or Snetterton if I recall correctly) but... Well, "revolutionary" it may have been, but half a dozen people in orange suits with brushes and powder can get the job done pretty quickly. Maybe not so you could eat your dinner off the surface of the track, but enough of a job so the timetable doesn't disappear up its own hooter.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Greem

It's still there, still being used (it got some use at Knockhill or Snetterton if I recall correctly) but... Well, "revolutionary" it may have been, but half a dozen people in orange suits with brushes and powder can get the job done pretty quickly. Maybe not so you could eat your dinner off the surface of the track, but enough of a job so the timetable doesn't disappear up its own hooter.

I don't really recall seeing it, perhaps ive missed it?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Mark0994

No. TCR car still have 1.75 engine.
http://tcr-series.com/index.php/entr...iulietta-tcr-2

You sure about that? This here seems to suggest otherwise: https://www.touringcartimes.com/2016...nish-in-macau/

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire 526G dual sim mit Tapatalk

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

You sure about that? This here seems to suggest otherwise: https://www.touringcartimes.com/2016...nish-in-macau/

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire 526G dual sim mit Tapatalk

Michela Cerruti wrote on facebook that the Giulietta still have the 1.7 turbo engine

[S griffin]

Been exactly a decade since Alfa were last in the championship, although there was the infamous Team 48 entry in 2008 and Ian Court also tried to enter on in 09. It's been quite a while

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by 3marinadrive

So here's a couple of things to consider;

James Cole has been uncompetitive in every car he has every raced in BTCC

He has been comprehensively beaten by all of his team-mates

Recently he and Josh Price have suddenly been competitive.

It's easy to use the 'great job' excuse for Sutton and Plato because everyone knows they are very good drivers.

Ask any team boss in the BTCC paddock if they would take either Cole or Price on pure ability...not on budget...I'd be surprised if they would.

Make no mistake - they are both 'decent' drivers ...not useless ...but neither of them are top-line drivers.

I reckon if u ask all the team bosses their opinion on drivers it would be something like this;

Top Drivers - those who will win races regularly - those who could win you a championship RIGHT NOW.....(based on ability etc)

Turkington
Shedden
Neal
Plato
Jordan
Collard
Sutton
Ingram
Mat Jackson


Those who could win races RIGHT NOW....(based on ability etc)

Morgan
Goff
Hill
Moffat
Austin
Cook
Taylor-Smith
Newsham
Chilton

Those who might win races in the future.....(based on ability)

Epps
Proctor
Whorton-Eales
Butcher


I would be amazed if any of them said...

James Cole
Josh Price.....


They just are NOT top drivers.

James Cole taking the win at the weekend said everything about BTCC.

We all love the variety and unpredictability.

But when James Cole wins a BTCC race it's become a joke.

He is a very well funded but very average racing driver.

If you look at the 22 names listed above - some are well funded but talented - some less well funded but talented - some have very little funding but lots of talent ....

BTCC is the UK's highest-profile series.

The TV figures and attendance figures back that up.

I would love to see what the new TCR UK series will look like.

If it can promise fairer racing...

Less 'manipulated' results....

Racing whereby the likes of Goff, Hill, Cook, Morgan etc can be regularly competitive then maybe it will be more appealing.

Come on Mr. Gow....

Stop taking the mickey.

This is silly!

Whilst you make some good points, I think it's really damn unfair on James Cole. Sure he's not a Shedden, Neal, Sutton or Plato. Heck you're right, he's not even a Goff, Hill, Morgan or Austin, but he did a good job of controlling that first race, and pulled a smashing move early in R2 to block the rivals, and hand Sutton the lead.

He deserves credit for that. He also deserves credit for not adapting the attitude of a few others in the field and simply taking people off when they pass him.

[Alfisti]

And in fairness to Cole:

1) the Toyota he ran in 2014 was utterly and abjectly off the pace. United Autosports disappeared from BTCC after that one season. I don't recollect the (Hard?) car he ran for part of the previous season being a contender either.

2) He switched to Motorbase who immediately had to pull out of racing for half a season. So race rusty, in an unfamiliar, barely driven car he struggled. He probably looked worse than he was with the talented, experienced Mat Jackson in the sister car.

3) It took Plato and Turkington half a season (ish) to get the Subaru competitive last year. Cole again was much less experienced than those two.

His run at Croft this summer ( which sadly ended in a coming together with teammate Price) seems to have been the turning point where man and machine have gelled. I for one hope that he will be continuing in the Subaru next year.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by luckn002

"The Giulia is a fantastic car, I have one on the road at the moment but its wheel base would be far longer than anything else on the grid." - Rob Austin on Twitter

Ah, wheelbase... that would explain that then.

As for engine it is confirmed TOCA for 2018, with Belcher having said would be interested in developing one of their own.

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

And in fairness to Cole:

1) the Toyota he ran in 2014 was utterly and abjectly off the pace. United Autosports disappeared from BTCC after that one season. I don't recollect the (Hard?) car he ran for part of the previous season being a contender either.

2) He switched to Motorbase who immediately had to pull out of racing for half a season. So race rusty, in an unfamiliar, barely driven car he struggled. He probably looked worse than he was with the talented, experienced Mat Jackson in the sister car.

3) It took Plato and Turkington half a season (ish) to get the Subaru competitive last year. Cole again was much less experienced than those two.

His run at Croft this summer ( which sadly ended in a coming together with teammate Price) seems to have been the turning point where man and machine have gelled. I for one hope that he will be continuing in the Subaru next year.

Well said. You don't win British Formula Ford by being average! I've had a few long chats with Cole and until this last off season he's done virtually no testing. He found a big gain when testing with Carl Faux as his engineer at a test session over the winter, but that was before the CoG change and that threw the set-up work they'd done. Now he's happy with the car (he admits he never really adapted to FWD), he's showing some fair pace.

The Rockingham win comes off the back of Cole running in the top ten the previous few rounds, so I think it's harsh to say it's all the car advantage. It was notable that he struggled more with the weight on board in R2. Yes the Subaru is one of the better cars on the grid, but Ashley Sutton is a superstar who has made JP look average............

[S griffin]

Yes, drivers get better with more experience. He's come a long way from his part season in 2013 when he struggled to outqualify the fastest s2000 cars. But he has talent and he grabbed this opportunity with both arms. I still think 'wow' knowing he's now a race winner.

As for Price, I think the post above is being harsh considering a) he's only 19 b) it's his first season c) his deal was announced last

[Racing Harz]

Speedworks 2018 with a new car?
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...o-toyota-2018/

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Racing Harz

Speedworks 2018 with a new car?
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...o-toyota-2018/

They're not ruling out a change, but I think that as they invested in a facelift and upgrade package for 2017 they'll want a couple of years out of it yet.
I suspect it's more of a veiled message to Toyota that says 'we're the most successful Toyota runner on the grid, with a highly rated driver - we'd like some dealer backing and we're not afraid to switch brand to get it'.

[Matt K]

It's a shame, considering the fact that it seems Toyota is quite interested in BTCC and there were hopes for a support from them.
I wish Handy could field two Alfas, not just the only car for Austin.

[S griffin]

It would be a logical step to get Toyota involved. Hope it happens for them

[luckn002]

https://www.motorsport.com/general/n...ission-952359/

New BTCC circuit for 2019?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by luckn002

https://www.motorsport.com/general/n...ission-952359/

New BTCC circuit for 2019?

Could be good as long as it doesn't turn out to be another time & money wasting white elephant like the Circuit of Wales...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Could be good as long as it doesn't turn out to be another time & money wasting white elephant like the Circuit of Wales...

Agreed, and as long as they don't expect public subsidies.

Although, looking at the picture of the proposed circuit, it doesn't seem to be a good flowing track; it appears to be mainly slowish corners and multiple hairpins; so heavy braking, point and squirt.

[psq43]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Although, looking at the picture of the proposed circuit, it doesn't seem to be a good flowing track; it appears to be mainly slowish corners and multiple hairpins; so heavy braking, point and squirt.

So Mondello 2 then.

Can't see it working for the BTCC, just like Mondello...

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by luckn002

https://www.motorsport.com/general/n...ission-952359/

New BTCC circuit for 2019?

Fingers crossed.

I see the plans are quite limited with noise restrictions but pleasing to see the creators are outwardly courting the BTCC.

[Moneyseeker]

Noise restrictions will limit the venue to only 12 days of racing per year with a maximum of four Saturday and Sunday meetings allowed.

How do you get a £29M private investment back on just 4 race weekends per year?

[MrAero]

A lot more easily than £443m... I wonder if track days can be run outside those limits and that's intended to be the bread and butter of the finances?