[TV] "Havoc" on TV

[alfaman]

Has anyone been watching "Havoc 2" on Granada's Men & Motors channel on digital TV?

Well don't get over-excited whilst the footage is what you'd expect from Havoc the commentary is just appalling. It's obviously been done by a guy who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

It's not the original commentary because this one now has references to Men & Motors.

The guy doesn't have the first idea how to pronounce drivers' names. Ex-F1 and Cart driver Stefan Johansson (I can't spell it but you know who I mean!) is pronounced Stee-ven Joe-han-sen. Patrick Depailler is Dee-pee, Bertrand Gachot becomes Bernard and even Kenny Acheson become Atch-ing-son....and there are more, many more....

I know it's the ultimate "car crash" TV but they dub the sound of cars skidding and crashing over everything - even a shot of Formula 1 cars sitting on the grid at Brands had skidding and crashing sound effects dubbed on!

And the editing is appalling - shots of 1970s Grand Prix at Brands with Formula 3 crashes thrown in.

Another time the commentator was waffling on about Indy cars whilst we saw pictures of Can Am cars and there is a difference isn't there?!

Sad that I may be I had to check the credits at the end just to see who the commentator was! The name didn't mean anything to me but I was shocked to see Brian Jones in the credits as well. I've not seen the original version and may be he did the commentary on that but he hasn't appeared so far in this one....

In case you're interested "Havoc" is on every weekday between 5PM and 6PM and then repeated from 10PM to 11PM.

But the channel does have some jewels - the British Rallycross championship, the British Rally championship and I even saw some coverage of the classic saloons which run in the various BARC championships.

But this version of "Havoc" is just awful!

[andy_b]

yes he did the original version. Not seen M and M version.

[codename_47]

Put it on for about 5 minutes while something else was on adverts.......had the music I now call the "F1 Digital+ music" over some quite serious crashes, including Lauda's at the Nurburgring.... I didn't stay long on it before turning over.

This isn't the light hearted "no-one is injured" havoc that's previously been on Men And Motors.....they even showed some footage from a GP at Kylami from the late 70's. I quickly turned over just in case they were going where I thought they were going with it......but even at 10pm they wouldn't be allowed to show the Pryce incedent would they?

Needless to say, I didn't stay for long enough to find out.

It's a shame that they're now allowed to broadcast from 11am but they fill up that time by just showing the same damn stuff 3 times a day instead of just two!

[EvilPumpkin]

Interesting you should say that codename - I noticed that they have footage from the Le Mans 1955 disaster in their opening and closing credits which I felt was rather tasteless.

The music and commentary seem to be fairly pants - but they do seem to be showing footage of marshals working and commenting on that too which is good to see.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by alfaman
you'd expect from Havoc the commentary is just appalling. It's obviously been done by a guy who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

It's not the original commentary because this one now has references to Men & Motors.

The guy doesn't have the first idea how to pronounce drivers' names. Ex-F1 and Cart driver Stefan Johansson (I can't spell it but you know who I mean!) is pronounced Stee-ven Joe-han-sen. Patrick Depailler is Dee-pee, Bertrand Gachot becomes Bernard and even Kenny Acheson become Atch-ing-son....and there are more, many more....

It sounds like Euan Macgregor of "shallow grave" and "trainspotting" fame.

[racer69]

Are they just playing the video's of Havoc 1,3,4 and so on....(Havoc 2 was banned from sale many years ago apparently) with a different voice over.

I have some of the early one's on tape. The voice over is done by Brian Kreisky. In some ways you could look at it as a tasteless program, but i look at the early one's as films that show the other side of motorsport, the side that is common but not talked about, yet very relevant.

On the cover of my copy of Havoc 1, it reads down the bottom on the front, in fairly big lettering: "Spectacular footage of some of the most horrific crashes in motor racing history". There's no way you'd get away with that on the cover of a video these days would you.

[EvilPumpkin]

racer, I have no problem with fatality clips in the right context - as in showing how dangerous motorsport can be - particularly with a view to training safety personnel.

But I do think showing hundreds of people running from a fire that ended up killing nearly 70 people as part of an "let's go to the ads" montage is a bit unnecessary.

[TimD]

To be honest, I always thought "Havoc" to be a very unpleasant way of making money. The original three tapes had no compunction about offering fatal accidents to the viewer, for the sake of offering footage of fatal accidents, and I never have tolerated that.

Maybe one's viewpoint changes if you actually have the misfortune to witness a fatal in real life. I can't help but think that ones appetite for that sort of "entertainment" is going to take a knock.

I always thought the one person who came out of the Havoc tapes with real credit was the marshal at the incident at Brands when all of a F3 field wound up in a heap on the opening lap. Brian Kreisky and cameraman decide to hop over the armco to interview people in amongst the carnage, and they attempt to engage the marshal in conversation. To our man's eternal credit, he looks about ready to deck the film-makers as he hustles them back behind the barrier.

[DarrellB]

Watching one of the Havoc last night it was interesting to see coverage of the marshals actually dealing with incidents at least these could be used as pointers for training. It is very difficult now to get decent coverage of incidents to use to show any good or bad points of incident handling especially for trainees whose fist experience may well be at an accident.

[EvilPumpkin]

Totally agree Darrell - for that reason, we've been taping some of them.

Tim, I totally agree with what you're saying - but I stand by using footage of fatalities when dealing with more advanced safety service training. One of the things we try to teach people is not only to be watching the incident but to be looking out for things like debris. The McNish F3000 incident is a classic (and tragic) example of this. I'd be happier if no-one ever died at all, but if they do die, I'd like to see something positive come from that death - and if we can use the incidents to potentially prevent further fatalities, then I think we should.

However, I totally agree that such things should not be used as (for want of a better word) entertainment - which brings me back to my comments about the Le Mans footage being used as part of a "go to ads" montage. I really don't like to see something so horrific trivialised in such a way.

[Rob29]

Just saw one of these and it had much more recent material,than I have seen before on this type of programme.Including F.Palmer Audi & a Katherine Legge FF shunt at Spa.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by Rob29
Just saw one of these and it had much more recent material,than I have seen before on this type of programme.Including F.Palmer Audi & a Katherine Legge FF shunt at Spa.

Yes, first one I managed to watch all of as well....much better this one, mainly because you're not worrying whether an incedent is fatal or not and they're just not telling you.......

Couldn't watch the earlier ones because of this "worry"

[Muppet]

The one I saw showed Stefan Bellof's sportscar loaded up onto a wrecker at Spa. Not exactly pleasant dinner time viewing, but these channels get away with showing extreme Police Camera footage too.

[ghinzani]

That one yesterday actuall showed the Bellof shunt from in-car in Ickx's 962... very nasty. They also showed a sportscar shunt from Brands in the late 70's that involved Martin Raymonds Chevron and I am sure there was a fatality in that - especially as there were police measuring the track afterwards.

But is that commentator Euan Macgregor? he certainly sounds like him.

[racer69]

Originally posted by ghinzani
They also showed a sportscar shunt from Brands in the late 70's that involved Martin Raymonds Chevron and I am sure there was a fatality in that - especially as there were police measuring the track afterwards.

That sounds like Havoc 3.

I don't have a problem with the video's, though i do agree showing them on TV isn't really on. If you want to watch them buy them.