Protyre Motorsport BARC F Renault 2012

EastonNeston · 10 Apr 2012, 17:55 (Ref:3056615)

To avoid any of us been punished by the 'mods', I'm starting this to discuss this seasons BARC Renault Championship.

#################################################

After a good weekends racing at Snetterton, MGR's Josh Webster is leading the series from CDR's Scott Malvern, with David Wagner of MGR lying 3rd in the points.

Fortec's Seb Morris had pole for all 3 races and won race 2 on Sunday morning. Josh Webster followed his win in Race 1 with 2 second places on Sunday. Scott Malvern won race 3, with Jake Dalton, MGR, and Macauley Walsh, Scorpio getting onto the podium for third place finishes.

Lower down the field, there were also impressive drives from, James fletcher, MGR, Martin Cao & Diego Mencacha, Fortec and Jack Dex, SWB.

The next meeting is at Rockingham on May 21/22

(The above is my personal summary of the weekend, others will have been focussing on other drivers and will have differing highlights, hopefully we can all discuss this with respect for each others viwpoints)

Flavio Galtieri · 10 Apr 2012, 19:37 (Ref:3056707)

Yes, I agree it was a great, competitive weekend and probably now the best junior sub F3 series with FR 2.0 UK being canned and FF Ecoboost just getting started. It's also nice to see proper sized grids!

I'm certainly looking forward to Rockingham.

JBarrettCommentator · 11 Apr 2012, 17:52 (Ref:3057280)

Footage of race 2 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5kQP...4eAUAAAAAAACAA

mountainstar · 11 Apr 2012, 19:14 (Ref:3057336)

How are costs for this championship?

I remember years ago it was significantly less than the top tier F Renault championship.

barnettracing · 11 Apr 2012, 21:02 (Ref:3057409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

How are costs for this championship?

I remember years ago it was significantly less than the top tier F Renault championship.

I don't know for sure, maybe Easton would know, but I vaguely remember hearing £60k for a season with a top team. However, that was 2 years ago, just after the UK series had adopted the Caparo and teams like Fortec decided to enter the series with their 'old' cars. With the number of meetings being cut to just 6 this year, I'd imagine costs are potentially slightly lower.

As ever, if you can run yourself (which I think is possible in this series) costs are significantly lower. This is about as high up the ladder as a 'dad and lad' could progress before the cars become too complex.

Deemun · 11 Apr 2012, 21:11 (Ref:3057418)

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnettracing

I don't know for sure, maybe Easton would know, but I vaguely remember hearing £60k for a season with a top team. However, that was 2 years ago, just after the UK series had adopted the Caparo and teams like Fortec decided to enter the series with their 'old' cars. With the number of meetings being cut to just 6 this year, I'd imagine costs are potentially slightly lower.

As ever, if you can run yourself (which I think is possible in this series) costs are significantly lower. This is about as high up the ladder as a 'dad and lad' could progress before the cars become too complex.

Suggestion from some sources is that some of the drivers running with the bigger outfits are spending considerably more than £60k while others are there on a shoestring and spending considerably less. I'll leave it to you to work out which is which but big money doesn't necassarily eqaute to big results!

barnettracing · 11 Apr 2012, 21:29 (Ref:3057436)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deemun

Suggestion from some sources is that some of the drivers running with the bigger outfits are spending considerably more than £60k while others are there on a shoestring and spending considerably less. I'll leave it to you to work out which is which but big money doesn't necassarily eqaute to big results!

As we well know Deemun

EastonNeston · 11 Apr 2012, 21:39 (Ref:3057445)

As is common in many classes, the cost of taking part is subject to a number of factors, and different teams structure the costs different ways, so some items that are included with 'Team A' are not with 'Team B', while with 'Team C' a totally different set of items may be excluded for the basic costs.

It is not unknown for a fast driver to be offered a very significantly lower price than a slow driver, as it is advantageous for the team to be winning.

Also, sometimes a car running as a 'private' entry may still be getting access to the data and engineering input of a 'professional' team.
Sorry I don't know the exact figures charged, it's a question I've never felt I needed to ask, but c £60k is a good starting point.

Flavio Galtieri · 11 Apr 2012, 22:14 (Ref:3057465)

I had a good look at the cars on my visit to Snetterton and was pleased to see that they aren't actually that complicated at all. About the same as a modern FF but with aero. I'm pretty sure a competent mechanic, Dad and driver could indeed run a successful car out of a van and trailer, preferably having inherited some data but especially as there's not even a need to change ratios.

Has this ever been done? I'm not been following this series before.

EastonNeston · 11 Apr 2012, 22:28 (Ref:3057477)

Not sure about van & trailer, but RPD Motorsport last year were a small team of engineering students. A couple of the private entries this year are family based teams.

barnettracing · 12 Apr 2012, 08:27 (Ref:3057664)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

Not sure about van & trailer, but RPD Motorsport last year were a small team of engineering students. A couple of the private entries this year are family based teams.

I know that Chris Middlehurst is run as Middlehurst Racing, which is effectively Chris and his dad, Andy. However, I also know they are getting technical assistance from Cliff Dempsey Racing (but I don't know how much).

As I said, I reckon it is possible...

EDIT TO ADD: I believe Chris' car turns up in a van and trailer combo as well.

ianpearson · 12 Apr 2012, 09:18 (Ref:3057695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnettracing

I know that Chris Middlehurst is run as Middlehurst Racing, which is effectively Chris and his dad, Andy. However, I also know they are getting technical assistance from Cliff Dempsey Racing (but I don't know how much).

As I said, I reckon it is possible...

EDIT TO ADD: I believe Chris' car turns up in a van and trailer combo as well.

Its definatley possible to run the cars on your own, we ran two ourselves in 2008 with no technical assistance at all. Granted we could only run top 6 to top 10 ish & often lacked that last 1-0.6 second with only 3 new sets of tyres spread over the season. I think with the likes of Fortec in BARC now the dad & son combo as you put it cannot compete with their 10-12 years of data. There have been privatley run cars winning but to my knowledge & when i was involved they all had assistance from teams or teams race engineers. I would love another crack at it but would need to double my current racing budget

HaydenFan · 13 Apr 2012, 00:47 (Ref:3058128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianpearson

Its definatley possible to run the cars on your own, we ran two ourselves in 2008 with no technical assistance at all. Granted we could only run top 6 to top 10 ish & often lacked that last 1-0.6 second with only 3 new sets of tyres spread over the season. I think with the likes of Fortec in BARC now the dad & son combo as you put it cannot compete with their 10-12 years of data. There have been privatley run cars winning but to my knowledge & when i was involved they all had assistance from teams or teams race engineers. I would love another crack at it but would need to double my current racing budget

So in a nut shell, the BARC series has become the defacto Formula Renault UK national series?

Flavio Galtieri · 13 Apr 2012, 02:45 (Ref:3058153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaydenFan

So in a nut shell, the BARC series has become the defacto Formula Renault UK national series?

That appears to be the case and as an added benefit, because it is far cheaper, we get to see the likes of Malvern and Webster racing each other rather than sitting on the sidelines because of lack of budget.

Felipe · 14 Apr 2012, 02:51 (Ref:3058719)

I'm afraid it's not the case.
I think the money progression is very big between F-Renault BARC and BF3 or GP3. Even drivers like Scott Malvern will struggle to make the budget for the big series.
On the other hand, usually F-Renault UK drivers had no problems to advance.

Deemun · 14 Apr 2012, 08:50 (Ref:3058797)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felipe

I'm afraid it's not the case.
I think the money progression is very big between F-Renault BARC and BF3 or GP3. Even drivers like Scott Malvern will struggle to make the budget for the big series.
On the other hand, usually F-Renault UK drivers had no problems to advance.

The only thing holding Scott Malvern's career back is lack of finance; pure & simple. His highly impressive record speaks for itself.

Peat · 14 Apr 2012, 09:02 (Ref:3058801)

Sounds as if the grid might swell to 30 at Rockingham. A few teams are adding additional cars.

Flavio Galtieri · 14 Apr 2012, 10:48 (Ref:3058838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peat

Sounds as if the grid might swell to 30 at Rockingham. A few teams are adding additional cars.

That would be superb. Proof that a junior series with talented young drivers doesn't have to cost the earth.

Can't wait, after years of being bored stiff by UK FR 2.0 I am looking forward to being at Rockingham. If it is anything like the Snetterton meeting it will be worth watching.

barnettracing · 14 Apr 2012, 10:58 (Ref:3058843)

I certainly know Hillspeed have two more cars available and are looking for drivers.

**chunterer** · 15 Apr 2012, 16:38 (Ref:3059647)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deemun

The only thing holding Scott Malvern's career back is lack of finance; pure & simple. His highly impressive record speaks for itself.

I see some parallels with Nathan Freke's situation from a few years back. Did everything right in the FF car and then couldn't raise the money for the right drive further up and had to scratch around for the right sorts of openings ever since. I hope Scott can keep momentum going into next year.

Felipe · 16 Apr 2012, 03:21 (Ref:3059982)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deemun

The only thing holding Scott Malvern's career back is lack of finance; pure & simple. His highly impressive record speaks for itself.

I totally agree. I'm sorry if sounded the opposite.

But, I would say lack of finance could be a problem for F-Renault BARC drivers. That's why I still can't see this boys moving to BF3 or similars. In my opinion, fully-funded drivers would go to (now former) UK series or Eurocup.

FFfan · 18 Jun 2012, 09:28 (Ref:3094012)

Another good weekend for this championship at Thruxton. A bumper entry of almost 30 cars once again and three events so far and the championship lead has changed hands at every round which shows just how competitive it is.

Real pity there is no TV coverage.

EastonNeston · 20 Jun 2012, 09:32 (Ref:3095321)

Interesting point about TV coverage, but is it really needed?
Most drivers at this level are funded by family money, or companies with a family link, so there is no real commecial message to send to veiwers. Indeed it is probably more effective, both in terms of cost & results, to invite the companies key customers to the event, where they can be 'sold the companies benefits' and also network with other companies involved with that driver/team.

It doesn't require expensive 'paddock club' style hospitality. I know of one driver who was entertaining his drivers with wine & cheese outside the teams truck. Simple & effective.

How effective is a brief longshot of a logo on a satilite channel when shown at non-peak viewing times? I feel that targeting a companies message to a specific audience is more effective in getting value from sponsorship.

It will be interesting to see what others think.

**bella** · 20 Jun 2012, 10:02 (Ref:3095330)

i agree with you, completely. particularly since tv coverage outside of f1 with the exception of the wsr espn non-live shows consists of absolutely no features whatsoever. so there's no scope to see your logo or see your driver promoted aside from watching it go around the circuit. personally i think there's far more to be gained from a sense of involvement and belonging which you can do at the track by inviting guests in - for whatever refreshments that may be - to meet the car, ask questions, speak to them before and after the race.

human benefits like that are far greater than the brand recognition ones, i think. for that you have to buy the whole car space, and create a strong brand presence at the track which frankly is wasted on the crowds in the uk at anything but the toca meetings.

there's no point in trying to imitate what the bigger series have. instead you have to take the benefits of a smaller series - cheaper tickets, use of hospitality suites etc - and run with those instead.

Flavio Galtieri · 20 Jun 2012, 10:22 (Ref:3095340)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

Interesting point about TV coverage, but is it really needed?
Most drivers at this level are funded by family money, or companies with a family link, so there is no real commecial message to send to veiwers. Indeed it is probably more effective, both in terms of cost & results, to invite the companies key customers to the event, where they can be 'sold the companies benefits' and also network with other companies involved with that driver/team.

It doesn't require expensive 'paddock club' style hospitality. I know of one driver who was entertaining his drivers with wine & cheese outside the teams truck. Simple & effective.

How effective is a brief longshot of a logo on a satilite channel when shown at non-peak viewing times? I feel that targeting a companies message to a specific audience is more effective in getting value from sponsorship.

It will be interesting to see what others think.

All Club and National TV exposure on satellite is paid for by the competitors, either directly or indirectly through championship registration fees.

There is almost no measurable benefit to the sponsor in this coverage; audiences on Motors TV for example are 10-11,000 and sometimes so low as to be unrecordable. Given that you would expect to pay around £8 per thousand viewers for a 30 sec commercial on Sky then you can see that it's worth about the cost of a set of front brake pads, if not less if you're logo doesn't fill the screen for 30 secs. Get on ITV at on a Sunday afternoon and then you've got a chance.

Having said that it might well be worth having the series televised if that helps bring in more competitors and helps competitors gain financial support from the b2b opportunities that can be arranged trackside. That's the key and I'm sure it works. The TV coverage should be considered as an extra benefit for competitors, it's a bit like vanity publishing, not as a serious marketing proposition in isolation.

But with full grids already. where's the incentive for the organising club?