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Old 3 Jun 2017, 08:45 (Ref:3738285)   #276
touring fan01
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
From a personal point of view, I think that the public grid walks and the interviewing process on the grid, both just suck up valuable racing time. If it was left to me, I would give the drivers their out lap plus a further "green flag" lap, line them up on the grid and let the race commence. I fail to understand what anyone gains from allowing the cars to sit on the grid for ten or fifteen minutes doing nothing. It is, after all, a race meeting, not a sit patiently on the track event.

And in case anyone thinks that this might be a radical idea, it isn't. It is how race meetings were conducted 50 years ago, although we didn't have the luxury of what is called the green flag lap.
the teams and their sponsors take their vip guests on the grid. its very important for them as they pay the money.
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Old 3 Jun 2017, 09:37 (Ref:3738295)   #277
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Let's just take a minute to realise how lucky we are to have this ITV4 coverage. When I started watching when I was a nipper in the mid 90s we used to usually have to wait a week before we got, say about 45 minutes of highlights. Now we've not only got all the 30 BTCC races, but also shows the support races live too. No longer do we have to avoid Motorsport publications in case we see the result. For people like me on Freeview this and F1 are the only motorsport I can regularly watch same day as the event. For a lot of us, if the coverage was at least half like it was two decades ago, it would been so much better
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Old 3 Jun 2017, 10:11 (Ref:3738300)   #278
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For people like me on Freeview this and F1 are the only motorsport I can regularly watch same day as the event.
Not quite - Blancpain is streamed on their website so you can watch that and also the N24 was streamed on radiolemans website. British GT has been live on Freeview (I think 'Frontrunner' was the Channel - I'd never heard of it either!). But yes - if you've only got Freeview you do have dig a bit deeper to find the motorsport!
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Old 3 Jun 2017, 13:46 (Ref:3738321)   #279
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Not quite - Blancpain is streamed on their website so you can watch that and also the N24 was streamed on radiolemans website. British GT has been live on Freeview (I think 'Frontrunner' was the Channel - I'd never heard of it either!). But yes - if you've only got Freeview you do have dig a bit deeper to find the motorsport!
Blacnpain GT (Sprint and Endurance) - YouTube
ELMS - YouTube & Dailymotion
IMSA - on Radiolemans.com
N24/VLN - Youtube & radiolemans.com
SuperGT - Youtube
Bathurst 12 - Youtube
British GT - Youtube (same channel as Blancpain, as it's SRO)
ADAC GT Masters - own site (German only I think)

These are all free, and available on YouTube for most of them. Some others like FIA WEC aren't free. If you don't own a smart TV, but want YouTube on your TV, consider picking up a PS3 or Xbox 360 for £20 on eBay (the old Wii no longer supports it). They support HD YouTube and streams as good as any TV Channel. If you have an Xbox One or PS4 then you can use that. There's also lots of things like Kodi boxes and other mini android devices that'll work.

Do not underestimate just how much live motorsport there is on YouTube. It's a fantastic time to be a motorsport fan. Just right now I'm watching Blancpain live. The coverage is fantastic.
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Old 3 Jun 2017, 14:37 (Ref:3738328)   #280
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but thats why those series audiences are so small and they dont have any real public profile apart from just 'enthusiasts'. people have to search around trying to find them on the internet.

i think what the previous poster meant is that we are very lucky to have such a big free to air mainstream tv coverage and the big audience numbers it brings because thats what makes the series successful and brings sponsors in.

not forgetting btcc can also be watched live and highlights on web streaming anyway.
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Old 3 Jun 2017, 16:27 (Ref:3738338)   #281
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Do not underestimate just how much live motorsport there is on YouTube. It's a fantastic time to be a motorsport fan. Just right now I'm watching Blancpain live. The coverage is fantastic.
the only downside is motorsport in general plain sucks compared to the past, it feels so sterile by comparison and over regulated


take any GT championship today and compare it to BPR Global GT from 1995-1996 for example, the BPR Global GT had large grids a very big diversity in cars , no fancy electronics or aero , etc and small companies could build their own car and be resonably succesful in it like the DeTomaso Pantera of ADA Engineering


or the Group C monsters from the 80s compared to modern LMP, same story

who doesn't love those 956/962 no rear diff, H shifter, over 750 BHP, no electronics and no fancy aero either, you had to be a real man (and somewhat insane) to drive those things to the max
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1QmCswql0
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Old 3 Jun 2017, 16:37 (Ref:3738345)   #282
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but thats why those series audiences are so small and they dont have any real public profile apart from just 'enthusiasts'. people have to search around trying to find them on the internet.

i think what the previous poster meant is that we are very lucky to have such a big free to air mainstream tv coverage and the big audience numbers it brings because thats what makes the series successful and brings sponsors in.

not forgetting btcc can also be watched live and highlights on web streaming anyway.
It certainly doesn't make it more accessible being on YouTube, no, but the original statement isn't correct - if you have an internet connection there's a LOT of motorsport you can watch completely for free, you just need to know it's there. With younger audiences moving towards internet based viewing over TV, this will become more accessible and normal as the decades roll by. My kids already completely ignore TV and just use YouTube.

Of course back in the day, these series wouldn't have been on TV anyway. We would never have had full live coverage of all of these series in the 80s, 90s or even 00s. Now not only do we get the coverage, it's all live and almost all free. It's a brilliant time to be a motorsport fan IMO. Sportscar racing has fully embraced the internet age, and BTCC has made the most of TV too.
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Old 4 Jun 2017, 09:38 (Ref:3738501)   #283
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Unfortunately you're right. In an ideal world we would have some sort of technical section (well I would anyway) where they had chats with engineers (past and present) about the current state of play. We hear the words 'we tried a few different set ups in Qualy/FP1/Race 1" but what are they, how much do they change the car's feel, why did they think it might work? I'd love to hear more about that, from guys who really know what they're talking about.

I think that would be fascinating, but alas the majority of people watching as casual fans would probably switch over and only change back when the crashing starts again. That's the nature of the audience.
Exactly, which is presumably why the additional content which ITV is putting on its Twitter account on Saturdays tends to be more niche in nature, because while interesting to the sort of people who read this forum, the bulk of the TV audience is less interested in why Adam Morgan's car is better when it rains, or what factors are taking into account when designing tyre compounds, or how a car's ride height is measured.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 07:53 (Ref:3738722)   #284
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Exactly, which is presumably why the additional content which ITV is putting on its Twitter account on Saturdays tends to be more niche in nature, because while interesting to the sort of people who read this forum, the bulk of the TV audience is less interested in why Adam Morgan's car is better when it rains, or what factors are taking into account when designing tyre compounds, or how a car's ride height is measured.
This is the problem with modern society though! We have a generation of people who don't know how the world works, nor show any interest in learning. Hence we have a bunch of limp wristed tight jean wearing 'lads' who don't even know how you hang a picture, never mind change a tyre or do basic maintenance on a car. I hate how everything's dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

It's like the whole talking to babies thing, you should talk to them like they're adults as their brains will pick stuff up, retain it and eventually regurgitate it. If you go in all GOO GOO, GAH GAH, then how do they learn. This is how I feel about young adults today, the whole world seems to educate them with dumbed down talent show nonsense and they don't learn anything useful. Ooh, you know all the words to Justin Bieber, but can you change a light bulb?

Not so long back I remember Tim Harvey explaining, mid-race, the difference between the WSR and Motorbase BMW E90s. How one was running different dampers, then how one was lighter because they opted for a H-pattern shifter vs. a sequential box, now that's interesting and something that people can learn from.

It's be a great feature if each round they looked at the various aspects of an NGTC car, even if they just did a 10min slot on the subframe, the roll cage, the brakes etc, just to drip feed in a bit of information, it can still be a bit dumbed down if they like, I mean they don't have to explain the metal composition of a brake disc or the spring rates but just to show people how the things are put together would be great!
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 08:09 (Ref:3738725)   #285
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I think you're off on a bit of a tangent there. The bulk of the TV audience also includes everybody who is older, not just teenagers. The fact is, the majority of people are not interested in technical details, and that's how it's always been. If you go back 20 years to 1997, ITV were doing the F1 and it was extremely dumbed down, and these "limp wristed teens" weren't even born then. Silly dumbed down TV has existed for decades because that's what a lot of people want.

We're in this ridiculous situation where we give kids exams and when they get great results, we pretend the exams are easier and say that kids don't have real world skills. Well changing a tyre is a great skill to have, it's not going to pay the bills. But programming does, and it pays pretty well too.

Teens of today are no different to the teens of before. Some can change tyres. Some cannot. Some can program. Some cannot. Some like physical things. Some do not. Everyone is different. TV has never changed - technical stuff has always been niche, otherwise a documentary about a Le Mans team would get more views than X-Factor.

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Old 5 Jun 2017, 09:08 (Ref:3738730)   #286
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I think you're off on a bit of a tangent there. The bulk of the TV audience also includes everybody who is older, not just teenagers. The fact is, the majority of people are not interested in technical details, and that's how it's always been. If you go back 20 years to 1997, ITV were doing the F1 and it was extremely dumbed down, and these "limp wristed teens" weren't even born then. Silly dumbed down TV has existed for decades because that's what a lot of people want.

We're in this ridiculous situation where we give kids exams and when they get great results, we pretend the exams are easier and say that kids don't have real world skills. Well changing a tyre is a great skill to have, it's not going to pay the bills. But programming does, and it pays pretty well too.

Teens of today are no different to the teens of before. Some can change tyres. Some cannot. Some can program. Some cannot. Some like physical things. Some do not. Everyone is different. TV has never changed - technical stuff has always been niche, otherwise a documentary about a Le Mans team would get more views than X-Factor.

Sorry, it just hit a sore spot, the point I'm making is that that everything is dumbed down and these teenagers grow up to be adults with no knowledge of anything. And whilst I totally get the whole people have different interests thing, it just seems that a lot of my peers have little technical/mechanical knowledge of how the world works.


My brother-in-law for example is a accomplished accountant, but can't even build a Lego model for his 4 year old and lets his wife do all the DIY as he doesn't know one end of a hammer from another, watching him use a screwdriver is like watching an ape operate a typewriter! The worry is, his two boys will grow up even worse and pretty soon we'll loose a lot of skilled people.

It just seems so biased that a talent show can go into every sordid detail about some wannabe pop star's life, yet a show about racing cars can't even explain the difference between two models of car never mind give any behind the scenes detail beyond the celeb-like rivalries!
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 09:32 (Ref:3738731)   #287
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Blacnpain GT (Sprint and Endurance) - YouTube
ELMS - YouTube & Dailymotion
IMSA - on Radiolemans.com
N24/VLN - Youtube & radiolemans.com
SuperGT - Youtube
Bathurst 12 - Youtube
British GT - Youtube (same channel as Blancpain, as it's SRO)
ADAC GT Masters - own site (German only I think)

These are all free, and available on YouTube for most of them. Some others like FIA WEC aren't free. If you don't own a smart TV, but want YouTube on your TV, consider picking up a PS3 or Xbox 360 for £20 on eBay (the old Wii no longer supports it). They support HD YouTube and streams as good as any TV Channel. If you have an Xbox One or PS4 then you can use that. There's also lots of things like Kodi boxes and other mini android devices that'll work.

Do not underestimate just how much live motorsport there is on YouTube. It's a fantastic time to be a motorsport fan. Just right now I'm watching Blancpain live. The coverage is fantastic.
I don't disagree that live motorsport on YouTube is ace, I watch a lot of it there. But live streaming on YouTube is not the way forward for the BTCC. Not yet. Typically, the events you list, get online live views in the low tens of thousands, TV still gets millions.

I watch the BTCC and free via the ITV website, or the ITV Hub app, so quite literally no idea what your point is.

Onwards.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 09:33 (Ref:3738732)   #288
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but thats why those series audiences are so small and they dont have any real public profile apart from just 'enthusiasts'. people have to search around trying to find them on the internet.

i think what the previous poster meant is that we are very lucky to have such a big free to air mainstream tv coverage and the big audience numbers it brings because thats what makes the series successful and brings sponsors in.

not forgetting btcc can also be watched live and highlights on web streaming anyway.
Absolutely.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:03 (Ref:3738800)   #289
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Dan Lloyd out at 888!

Wonder if it's a repeat of the sponsor issues he had at Eurotech?
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:07 (Ref:3738801)   #290
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Gutted for Daniel. He's a quick driver (as shown in the Eurotech Honda), and hasn't been helped at all by the very poor MG.

Be interesting to see who replaces him. Who is out of a drive and might fancy it? Doesn't look hugely appealing to me.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:09 (Ref:3738802)   #291
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Dan Lloyd out at 888!

Wonder if it's a repeat of the sponsor issues he had at Eurotech?
From his website: "Lloyd’s decision to depart has come to a point during the last week, primarily off the back of consistently disappointing results"

Beginning of the end for 888?

Likewise, it'll be interesting to see who will replace him...
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:10 (Ref:3738804)   #292
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The last remnant of Triple Eight dissolved two weeks ago. It's very much Warren Scott's B-Team now.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:11 (Ref:3738806)   #293
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Dan Lloyd out at 888!

Wonder if it's a repeat of the sponsor issues he had at Eurotech?
Maybe that, or cheesed off at handing money over to drive a bent car
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:30 (Ref:3738813)   #294
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Maybe that, or cheesed off at handing money over to drive a bent car
This sounds more than likely the truth behind the situation.
In the event of a severely damaged car - who is liable for funding a replacement?
Plato has been unable to generate enough backing for a replacement Subaru, and the overall 888/BMR effort seems to be operating on less than all cylinders at the moment.

It does not look good for the long term prospects:
They seem to be short of testing, lacking the capability to replace damaged cars and now down a good driver too.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:46 (Ref:3738821)   #295
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From his website: "Lloyd’s decision to depart has come to a point during the last week, primarily off the back of consistently disappointing results"
Jut looked at his site and that quote isn't there. Hmmm.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 17:59 (Ref:3738828)   #296
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Jut looked at his site and that quote isn't there. Hmmm.
Still there for me.

He just put this on Twitter: "Just to clarify the decision wasn't made because of financial situations. The story may be a tad confusing but I wanted to clear things up."

Can't be encouraging for ATS either
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 18:49 (Ref:3738849)   #297
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It does make you wonder who will have the funds to jump in to an underperforming car, with little chance of success part way through the season.

Dan has said "I was so excited to have joined the MG line-up for 2017. Unfortunately the results have led to us already losing a number of sponsors for this season, and this has forced us to make the very difficult decision to walk away from the BTCC for the time-being."

Dan has said the withdrawal was not the result of financial issues. He said in the press release quoted above, he has already lost a number of sponsors for this season. Sponsors pay money to have their names on the car, or on drivers apparel. How is losing sponsors not financial?

I wonder if Dan has said it is not financial as a way of trying to prevent 888 losing their TBL if they fail to fill the seat for this weekend. Financial issues cannot be used as a case of 'force majeure' which results in a team not entering their full compliment of cars for a meeting.

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Old 5 Jun 2017, 19:01 (Ref:3738851)   #298
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Jut looked at his site and that quote isn't there. Hmmm.
Press release here:http://mailchi.mp/9548ab0e7d68/danie...e?e=3949855668
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 19:28 (Ref:3738865)   #299
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Dan has said the withdrawal was not the result of financial issues. He said in the press release quoted above, he has already lost a number of sponsors for this season. Sponsors pay money to have their names on the car, or on drivers apparel. How is losing sponsors not financial?.
Perhaps the sponsor(s) still have plenty of finances available, but are not willing to back that car/team at the moment? It's not financial, but reputational.
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 19:44 (Ref:3738871)   #300
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Perhaps the sponsor(s) still have plenty of finances available, but are not willing to back that car/team at the moment? It's not financial, but reputational.
If the sponsors don't want their reputation tarnished by associated with a poorly performing car they stop paying Dan money, Dan can't afford the seat without the sponsors money therefore it is a financial situation and not force majeure.
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