Boycotting salted circuits ???

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Good morning Mike !

Just make sure that weather is around for Barcelona in 3 weeks time, please Gordon!



BTW Cadwell also cancelled today- should have been bike racing!

[Al Weyman]

Nice weather Gordon, shame the rest of the country is fecked!

[terence]

Its only in that state because of the bonus pension the spanish government pay Gordon.

[Al Weyman]

Ha ha he will have to pay it all back soon if they get their way!

[terence]

Nah,he's got Diplomatic Immunity. Ambassador for Larkins.

[GORDON STREETER]

I've got a big suitcase to bring back home !

[Peter Mallett]

I suggest you'd be better taking it to the Cayman Islands.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I suggest you'd be better taking it to the Cayman Islands.

What use is a suitcase of salt in the Cayman Isles ?

[terence]

You sure its "salt"?????

[grantp]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FQ_wBHfEzg

Have a look at the attached, go to about 20mins........

Bladders........

Excellent entertainment, if a little dated. Stayed just the good side of 'totally wrongly posed' at its worst points.

Was it a late or early Easter that year? The amount of snow around looks somehow familiar to this weekend and we are only a week from Easter.

Well, a quick search tells me ...

http://www.oldracingcars.com/results...hp?RaceID=E75B

March 28th.

Can we expect sun tomorrow then - that's what they had back in the day ...

(I also note that the in the linked results does not reflect the filmed result at all. Interesting.)

[terence]

From the days when the drivers were PROPER drivers,not the wusses we see today!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by terence bower

From the days when the drivers were PROPER drivers,not the wusses we see today!

Proper mechanics too!

Mind you - private plane, Terence. A bit wussy or the ultimate bravado?

[911thillclimber]

What a great vid that was!
Thanks for posting that, even had some 911 content for me.

[terence]

Originally Posted by grantp

Proper mechanics too!

Mind you - private plane, Terence. A bit wussy or the ultimate bravado?

Nothing wrong with the plane Grant. Did you notice the lack of Tea Drinking vessels?
Obviously molasses were not mixed with the salt in those days! There are more accidents AFTER the roads have thawed out.

[historic racer]

Originally Posted by terence bower

You sure its "salt"?????

Were just leave it as its white and powdery , eh

[grantp]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Nothing wrong with the plane Grant. Did you notice the lack of Tea Drinking vessels?
Obviously molasses were not mixed with the salt in those days! There are more accidents AFTER the roads have thawed out.

Well, I suppose back in those days the 'real' drivers were also quite frequently 'real' pilots. Twin engined 'can get you a long way' jobs.

Purley or course.
Hill, G.
Cevert, F.
Lauda, N. (or did he go straight to jets?)

There is something of a pattern there I think. Maybe a couple of patterns.

These days it seems you buy the jet and get someone else to fly it. Just not the same really.

Can't say I did notice the lack of tea drinking equipment, though I suppose one would have to use camping gas back then. I will review to see if I can spot alternatives. (Or you could just tell me what else I failed to spot Terry ....)

[Al Weyman]

Shame Graham didnt get someone else to fly it for him.

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Going back to the original question, should the situation occur I am sure it will come down to individuals making their own decision whether to race on a salt treated track or not. What I would expect is for the circuit concerned to advise competitors and organisers of any treatment so that they can make their own 'risk assessment'.

Running something rare and valuable from the 60s / 70s, with alloy tub / body, perhaps riveted with steel rivets to a steel spaceframe, magnesium castings, and everything rose jointed would be a bit different to running a modern production saloon for instance! (If anything like the latter exists, that is!)

I left London at some stupid early hour Friday AM to test the day at Oulton and then to race yesterday. It was weird - there was a lot of snow in places on the way up but a few miles from the circuit it was damp but no snow settled at all. The circuit itself was covered in around 2 inches of snow when we arrived and there was a lot of discussion about forecasts etc.

The big issues came when we saw them ploughing and a salt spreader behind.

Pretty quickly the discussion amongst owners / competitors turned to whether anyone would risk running their cars on the salt.

The cynical of us were in disbelief that MSV were so desperate to get the circuit open so they could declare it operational and take our testing fees. Ultimately, everyone I spoke to took the decision not to test cars on the salt due to the horrific damage it would have caused.

We decided to stay Friday night and see how things developed weather wise but by mid-afternoon with aeronautic forecasts predicting 40cm of snow starting from around 4.30pm and going for 14 hours, we all took the decision to hit the road and head home. Masters announced the cancellation of the meeting soon after.

I was stunned that the circuit would use salt given the impact it will have on a race car. Unbelievable.

It was also clear that MSV would have held Masters liable for the track hire regardless of weather leaving Masters between a rock and a hard place.

I'm all for a boycott of any circuit that uses salt. The damage to our beautiful toys is unimaginable and salt has no place on a race circuit. For the sake of them gaining a little revenue by declaring the circuit open, imagine the many many thousands of pounds damage they cause!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

I'm all for a boycott of any circuit that uses salt. The damage to our beautiful toys is unimaginable and salt has no place on a race circuit. For the sake of them gaining a little revenue by declaring the circuit open, imagine the many many thousands of pounds damage they cause!

The recent article in Motorsport about Dawntreader's restoration of the BAR 400 km/h Bonneville car makes interesting reading and shows that when salt has started to cause corrosion it is very hard to stop it.

Current historic racing where competitors pay ever increasing entry fees is a pretty one sided deal - it's a long way from the days when they paid start money!
The upside is the circuit owners & promoters (+ FIA) presumably have a better standard of living!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

I was stunned that the circuit would use salt given the impact it will have on a race car. Unbelievable.

It was also clear that MSV would have held Masters liable for the track hire regardless of weather leaving Masters between a rock and a hard place.

I'm all for a boycott of any circuit that uses salt. The damage to our beautiful toys is unimaginable and salt has no place on a race circuit. For the sake of them gaining a little revenue by declaring the circuit open, imagine the many many thousands of pounds damage they cause!

Excellent post Roger. Appreciate input from a racer who was at the meeting (that fired this thread), and with exactly the sort of cars most at risk. Interestingly at Silverstone the weekend before no attempt was made to clear the snow from the circuit, so maybe different policy (or no equipment / personnel to do it)?

[Peter Mallett]

Only one question. Did they use the salt? I ask because someone (not an official) told me that whilst it was there, it wasn't used.

Also the cynic in me accepts that circuits will do anything to make sure the punter pays, however the other side of the coin is that if it is not safe for the emergency services and marshals then no matter how clear the circuit is, the event can't run anyway.

The damage that salt (or any other substance) can do is magnified by the value of the vehicles racing so I expect Masters and MSV also took this into account. Incidentally Masters says it is postponed, or did they revise that to "cancelled".

[terence]

Biggest problem for hiring a circuit is the weather is not guaranteed to be sunny and warm on your chosen date.As for using salt,who pays for that.
Seriously though,it is possible to remove the salt from non ferrous metals,needs doing asap after exposure. We used to use a truck wash called Traffic and steam wash it off. Steam washed because the car would dry out faster,often helped with a blow gun. Keep the patient warm and dry for 24 hrs,then you can start polishing/repainting all over again.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Seriously though,it is possible to remove the salt from non ferrous metals,needs doing asap after exposure. .

That may be all very well on the parts that you can get at (and see) but as you know water/salt solution gets into just about everywhere, saloon cars with steel box section chassis/sills you can't clean out and as we know they always rust away from the inside !

[JonWolfe]

Interestingly I know that the circuit owners charge the event organisers even if there is a weather situation which means the actual event is cancelled. The best you ever get with track days for example is a credit note and there's no obligation even to do that. The event organiser can take out insurance against that however I suspect it's jolly expensive. Hopefully HSCC Thruxton next weekend will be OK.

[Mike Bell]

I am wondering if 'postponment' of an event is contractually different to 'cancelling'? (Probably wish I hadn't asked that! )

Sorry Terence, I'm in the same camp as Gordon when it comes to cleaning race cars. And the risk of using water at pressure, especially hot water on cold parts, is that it can force dirt, salt, whatever, past seals and into bearings and crevices. Also between skins of metal where it then doesn't dry out...

The question of whether salt was actually used at Oulton is academic to the question posed, but would be good to hear that it was not!