Will the Mazda P2 cars ever be competitive? - Page 2

Deleted · 5 May 2015, 20:05 (Ref:3534466)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

They'd be smart to grab that AER lump for 2017....Dyson did a huge amount of development work on it.

Rebadge it as a Skyactiv and nobody other than a bunch of anoraks will know the difference.

Agreed... I bet they've managed to fool the non nerds to think that the ancient Lola, the "Mazda Prototype", is their own too.

Anyway, this Speedsource program is about as convincing as the RSR Jag was in ALMS. At least they realized to can that crapwagon eventually, will be interesting to see if Speedsource makes the decision in similar time frame.

Also to joeb, yeah they weren't too bad off the pace at Laguna, but that was one of the only not-totally-horrible tracks for them last year too, and IIRC they did better then than now.

Maelochs · 5 May 2015, 21:02 (Ref:3534494)

I'd wager Mazda execs are thinking long and hard about the program ... they seem mainly to be interested in racing in the U.S. so that means they would need to run in an accepted P2 chassis come 2017, and since the diesel most likely isn't going to give them the performance they will need, i'd bet they switch to petrol.

The diesel made some sense if it supported a North America-available SkyActiv diesel street motor, but ... so I look for the diesel to be gone by 2016 or 2017 at the latest.

knighty · 30 Jun 2015, 14:19 (Ref:3554903)

Looks like SpeedSource have finally realized their plan to push circa 500bhp from the Mazda I4 was a crock........seems the rules banning diesels have offered them an escape clause in what was a very foolish and poorly researched project.......the results speak for themselves........I really dont blame them for shoving an AER I4 gasilone in the back of the Lola and kissing goodbye to the whole sorry Diesel mess......they only have themselves to blame........ I told you so, I told you so, I told you so.......ahhh, that feels better B-)

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/john-doonan-mazda-ce-que-nous-avons-fait-avec-le-moteur-diesel-releve-dun-miracle/

YZFrider · 30 Jun 2015, 15:40 (Ref:3554921)

Regulations and performance aside, I'm wondering if the delayed (yet again) production diesel Mazda 6 is also a factor to switch. On an interesting note, there are still 2-3 track prepped Mazda 6 diesels competing in the local endurance races (NASA) and the 25 hour race at Thunderhill

AoB Special Stage · 30 Jun 2015, 15:45 (Ref:3554923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

I don't think this machine will ever be succesfull. It's an old car with an engine that is rapidly becoming impopular.

Mazda should withdraw and save face.

It's time they make good on their promise and return with a rotary to Le Mans.

It's never been about winning. It's been about 'racing improves the breed' and Mazda loves reminding people.

Regardless, rotaries are banned at Le Mans.

BRG · 30 Jun 2015, 15:57 (Ref:3554932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

It's never been about winning. It's been about 'racing improves the breed' and Mazda loves reminding people.

Regardless, rotaries are banned at Le Mans.

BOP breaks will be possible now they have the AER engine

deggis · 30 Jun 2015, 15:57 (Ref:3554934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

It's never been about winning. It's been about 'racing improves the breed' and Mazda loves reminding people.

With the current results that marketing image has quickly turned into "deteriorates the breed".

HORNDAWG · 30 Jun 2015, 17:00 (Ref:3554966)

Well I guess now the simple answer is YES, as previously shown by Dyson.

L.P.

seanyb505 · 30 Jun 2015, 17:14 (Ref:3554972)

Dyson never competed with DPs in the current rule set. Even back then, they weren't consistently competitive.

I do hope that the new power plant can get the red cars with Mazda stickers moving faster, so the team can develop the rest of the car.

kvenom · 30 Jun 2015, 17:22 (Ref:3554975)

Develop the rest of the car? The car is ancient....what can they realistically develop non-powertrain wise to make it go any faster? The lola chassis is at the end of its development life.

**joeb** · 30 Jun 2015, 17:49 (Ref:3554983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvenom

Develop the rest of the car? The car is ancient....what can they realistically develop non-powertrain wise to make it go any faster? The lola chassis is at the end of its development life.

They can do some aero development in the offseason. I know they had to make cooling adjustments to help with the diesel, so reversing those and maybe some additional tweeks.

knighty · 30 Jun 2015, 19:12 (Ref:3554995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

They can do some aero development in the offseason. I know they had to make cooling adjustments to help with the diesel, so reversing those and maybe some additional tweeks.

Well i believe multimatics who now produce the lola chassis now employ the ex lola cheif designer julian sole, so im sure if mazda have a bit of developmenf budget julian could makd it faster with just a touch of simple modernization, but I dare say thd GT40 project fof ford is multcmatics most important project bar nothing.

Coach Ep · 30 Jun 2015, 19:16 (Ref:3554996)

Mazda is talking about participating beyond 2016 so won't they need at least a new tub to comply with the new P2 rules?

**joeb** · 30 Jun 2015, 19:43 (Ref:3555001)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Mazda is talking about participating beyond 2016 so won't they need at least a new tub to comply with the new P2 rules?

Correct, they will have to select one of the "chosen 4" chassis and go from there.

ModelT · 30 Jun 2015, 20:43 (Ref:3555018)

As it stands from my viewpoint, to answer the post question, simply would be, NO, they will not ever be competitive.

The diesel engine would appear to developed in house at Speedsource, rather than at Mazda? I was not aware that Speedsource were an engine developer? If they are, then the production road car Mazda diesel engine must clearly be junk

Someone noted that Mazda has not put much funding into this program? Has that person checked out the cost of an AMG Mercedes 55? That would seem to say they have,

as is apparent looking thru the Speedsource window, there is no other source of revenue going on.

Can the Lola chassis be "modernized" as has been suggested? I guess to a degree it can. But no one is ever going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear are they. The chassis is way too old and I would imagine it to be more cost effective to simply buy a current/newer spec chassis. Unless the mindset is that Speedsource can develop the chassis in the same manner as the diesel engine has been developed.

It is good to have them on track as it adds variety. It cannot be good in any manner for Mazda marketing to see them so uncompetitive, which ultimately could lead to the program being canned I would imagine.

**joeb** · 1 Jul 2015, 01:32 (Ref:3555081)

Here are some times the Dyson put (in in the race) in past years vs the 2015 DP's:

Sebring
2009: 1:51.975
2010: 1:49.827
2011: 1:53.224
DP 2015: 1:52.261 (Actually Ligier)

Long Beach
2009: 1:16.228
2010: 1:14.881
2011: 1:17.224
DP 2015: 1:15.682

Laguna
2009: 1:15.329
2010: 1:14.262
2011: 1:15.293
DP 2015: 1:19.303 (Actually the Ligier)

For 2012 and 2013 they stopped reporting fastest race lap on the official results.

The Dyson cars ran in a variety of different specs throughout the years, so the variation in times could reflect their weight/boost/restrictor.

My point is the new petrol Mazda has the potential to be competitive depending on the boost it is given and the way it uses the Continental stones.

**joeb** · 1 Jul 2015, 01:38 (Ref:3555082)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModelT

As it stands from my viewpoint, to answer the post question, simply would be, NO, they will not ever be competitive.

The diesel engine would appear to developed in house at Speedsource, rather than at Mazda? I was not aware that Speedsource were an engine developer? If they are, then the production road car Mazda diesel engine must clearly be junk

Can the Lola chassis be "modernized" as has been suggested? I guess to a degree it can. But no one is ever going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear are they. The chassis is way too old and I would imagine it to be more cost effective to simply buy a current/newer spec chassis. Unless the mindset is that Speedsource can develop the chassis in the same manner as the diesel engine has been developed.

It is good to have them on track as it adds variety. It cannot be good in any manner for Mazda marketing to see them so uncompetitive, which ultimately could lead to the program being canned I would imagine.

Speedsource hadn't ever developed a diesel engine before, and nobody else has tried to take a street block diesel and triple the power either. So yes they increased the power a lot on the car, but it still wasn't enough.

Why would they buy a new chassis for one more season before everything gets thrown out in favor of new regs in 2017? Especially when all the cars in the Proto class get BOP'd? Is the chassis really too old compared to the open top HPD's that ran last year or the Morgan which both won races?

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