Your top ten drivers from the 2005 Formula 1 season

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's based on expectation.

We were told before the season that Mark would be the new Fangio.

He wasn't

I think that is more your fault for believing it rather than Mark's for not living up to it.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's based on expectation.

That is ridiculous.

Surely you remember what happens when the green flag drops ...........

I'll base mine on on-track performance thank you very much - as I expected most sane people would.

[mac]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Also, Nick seems to have contributed a lot more behind the scenes in getting the car competitive.

How ON EARTH can you justify that statement!!!???

Has Patrick Head been on the phone to you everytime one of the drivers has made some input to the car's performance?

The Williams' pace hasn't exactly tailed off since Heidfeld was injured. If anything it's improved - without the input of the golden-haired boy of car development.

[KE30MAN]

Another Webber slag-off. I am not even a huge fan but even I am sick of every F1 thread ending the same way.

Wake me up when it's finished.

[mac]

Sorry for three posts in quick succession, but my top ten is:

1) Fernando Alonso
Drove to a commanding early lead and did everything required to clean up the championship. Stuck it up those questioning his racing ability when let off the leash in Japan. Personal highlights: Imola and Japan

2) Kimi Raikkonen
For his pure, unadulterated, blinding speed at many races. Undoubtedly helped by arguably the fastest car, his lap times in clear air were often mind-blowing. Personal highlights: Japan and astronomical lap times

3) Juan Pablo Montoya
Showed in the second half of the year that he can match his phenomenal team mate. Will be very interesting to see them duke it out in 2006. Personal highlights: Three wins, especially Brazil

4) Michael Schumacher
His stunning performances can be seen by the HUGE gaps often between he and his team mate. Some feisty performances dragged a slow Ferrari where it should not have been at many times. Let down by weekends like China and Turkey. Personal highlights: Imola, Hungary and pass on Fisi at Interlagos

5) Tiago Monteiro
I am surprised to be putting him here - but I cannot think of anyone below him that performed better. Some outstanding performances in an evil car. Personal highlights: Indy and Spa

6) Jarno Trulli
Strong start to the year proved he is as much a racer as anyone when in the right machinery. Faded a little at the end of the season due to various factors. Personal highlights: Sepang and Bahrain

7) Ralf Schumacher
Came on strong at the end of the season and went some way to justifying his paypacket. Looked good for Toyota's first win at Spa before tyre gamble. Personal highlights: Spa and China

8) Mark Webber
Showed glimpses of magic speed (particularly in qualifying), but clearly made too many mistakes in the first half of the season. Elevated above team mate (if ever so slightly) due to superior speed and end of season form (despite Nick's absence). Personal highlights: Japan, Monaco and Spa

9) Nick Heidfeld
Remarkably solid season. Usually marginally behind team mate on speed, but more often at the finish without error. Established himself as a worthy frontrunner in Formula One. Personal highlights: Phenomenal Nurburgring drive

10) Jenson Button
After BAR's ban showed glimpses of last season's performances in a less impressive car. Tendency to disappear a little in some races mostly down to car setup issues. Personal highlights: Spa and Hockenheim

Of the rest, Fisi and DC deserve honourable mentions, while Klien, Albers and Doornbos had some impressive moments.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by mac

How ON EARTH can you justify that statement!!!???

Has Patrick Head been on the phone to you everytime one of the drivers has made some input to the car's performance?

The Williams' pace hasn't exactly tailed off since Heidfeld was injured. If anything it's improved - without the input of the golden-haired boy of car development.

I've never seen a quote from anyone praising Webber's input to car development, even though he's been team leader in at least 3 of his 4 seasons. Frank and Patrick have praised Nick and never praised Webber in this area.

Anyway, can we split the Webber/Heidfeld stuff onto a different thread now, and leave this for the lists?

[Gerben24]

1. JP Montoya In his first year with Mclaren just as quick as KR in a car which has been setup for KR. Had a lot of bad luck with that motorcycle incident, which saw him start from scratch again.

2. K Raikkonen This years WDC if it wasn't for all those blow ups. His qually lap at Monza was brilliant. Wasn't faultless this season of course.

3. F Alonso A tiny bit lucky to be WDC. A good succesor to MS. What did he do to Fisi? Only made 2 big mistakes, Canada, putting grafiti on the wall and Hungary, lawn mowing the grass in the first corner of the first lap.

4. J Trulli Brilliant drives from him, especially in the beginning of the year, a shame he couldn't use Toyota's first ever pole at Indy. Lacked speed at the end of the year, especially with the new car.

5. T Monteiro Rookie of the year. Knows how to bring the car home. Totally outshined his teammate. His drive at Spa was brilliant.

6. N Heidfeld Proved me wrong this year. I never really rated him high. But he got the only pole for Williams this year and was just as quick as his teammate.

7. M Schumacher It wasn't just the tyres and the car. Schumacher lacked pace as well this year. What a brilliant pole in Hungary though!

8. J Button Just compare his performance with his teammate. His driving style is absolutely boring but very effective. Could have been 7th, if not for the Buttongate scandal.

9. C Albers With the qualifying format of this season it is very difficult to shine as a rookie. I think he did a good job, his qualifying lap in Canada and his race in Germany jump in mind. He is also not affraid to let his opinion know, for example in Belgium they qualified the cars on petrol-fumes, which he was absolutely discusted by. He said it would compromise their race performance, which it did.

10. V Liuzzi For having the same qualifying time and finishing ahead of his teammate (who is the 4th alltime point scorer in F1-history) in his first ever Formula 1 race.

[steve_r]

1) Alonso - Worthy WDC. Showed blinding speed, thrashed his previously highly rated team-mate, showed maturity and self restraint (when needing results not wins)
2) Raikonnen - If if if the Mercedes engines were not made of glass, he may have ended up as champion. Obviously the stand-out driver for much of the season.

That was the easy bit, now for the difficult part:

3) Coulthard - Just shades 3rd best driver in my book. Rarely quick in qualifying, but always on the pace on Sunday. Numerous times qualified behind his team-mate, but left him beind in the race. The Coulthard / RBR partnership was the surprise of the year.
4) M Schumacher - Very dissapointing year, but again out-performed his often invisible team-mate. Be honest - if you were given the job of a team manager and could pick any 2 drivers, he would probably be one of them... (Ok you may disagree, but lets not start a fight eh?)
5) Montoya - Got faster as the year progressed, but again some days sems not quite at the races. If he can get more consistantly, I doubt that Kimi will have it all his own way next year.
6) Button - Disasterous start to the season, but found some speed towards the end. Some wierd lack of race pace was presumably down to car?
7) Monteiro - I would like to see him back in a decent car next year, as he a) Always bought the car home and b) Got faster as the year went by.
8) Trulli - Some great qualifying performances that made his team-mate look on in awe. However, he has not done much to break his reputation of a great qualifier who can't quite do the same on Sunday.
9) Webber - The first time he is paired up with a quality team-mate, and he may have lost a little of his reputation, but still impressed occasionally, in what was not the greatest car.
10) Heidfeld - A couple of years ago he was struggling to get a decent drive, but another solid season. A good signing for BMW next year.

[Gilles lives!]

Here's mine.

Alonso. Absolute quality, he has everthing.

Raikkonen. As above, perhaps harder on the car.

Button. Outstanding in qualifying, did well in the races with poor handling car.

Montoya. Took a few races to get up to Raikkonen speed though.

Trulli. Almost the same as Button, watch out next year.

Coulthard. Great job against the young drivers.

Fisichella. Dissapointed me, but occaisionally brilliant.

Webber. Always exiting to watch, if not a little to exiting at times!

Heidfield. There or there abouts, still undecided on his outright ability.

Schumi. Tried too hard in dog of a car, drove beyond even his abilities, deserves reprimand after Albers incident in China, what was he thinking?

[Mark Webber]

I'm stay out of the Webber debate as I have tried to do most of the year


My list


Kimmi Raikkonen : has done enough by a country to win the WDC this year just unlucky

Fernando Alonso: top driver in great car well done on a fitting WDC

JPM : well suprized me (I'm not a fan) but credit where it is due

David Coulthard: drove hard and often maybe not on Marks chrissy card list anymore , but showed he is not a spent force in F1

Mark Webber : hard year but showed great speed in very slow and underperforming Williams, Mark showed alot of sprint this year, proved hs not scared to have ago ,he beat his team mate and when the car did work well he was always a podium threat

Ralf Schumacher : Took a little long to adjust to the car but as always ralf has shown he is still one of the fastest F1 drivers

Jenson Button : A little dissapointing year actually no doubt Jenson can drive but its the mess that sorrounds him ie : I want to drive here NO I want to drive there and so on . I still think his along way from a win but it will happen , there has been times this year where a win looked somewhat likely but it sort of fissed way

M Schumacher : well even the King can have a bad one just to many little mistakes, very much like Marks just trying to outdrive a bad car but in MS situation I think tyres hurt him this year

Jarno Trulli
Strong start to the year proved he is as much a racer as anyone when in the right machinery. Faded a little at the end of the season due to various factors

Christan Klien: This kid has driven well all year (when he drove )

[N I Tram]

So you're 'staying out of the Webber debate' by choosing a completely illogical position for him, while leaving Nick out of the top 10? Strewth, as I believe you say.

I wil instead choose a top 8 and ignore the Williams guys (both would probably be in my top 10 otherwise)

1 Alonso
2 Coulthard
3 Kimi
4 JPM
5 Michael
6 Trulli
7 Button
8 Ralf

Overall these aren't too controversial I guesss

[RaceFreak]

My cut:
Fernando Alonso Diaz: WDC
Kimi (gimme a beer !) Raikkonen: Unlucky NOT to have been WDC
JPM: Stay away from stick and ball games. WDC contender next year
MS : We always wondered how he'd perform in a Minardi. Now we know
DC : Who'da guessed ?
Klien: Another real surprise and constant improver
JB: although I can't exactly say why...
Fisi: always near the front , but suffered in-comparison to Alonso.
Tiero: Soldiered bravely in the "Car from Hell"
Heidfelt: MW's nightmare.

[MichaelH]

1. Fernando Alonso

fast, consistant, great racer, cr*p singer. The best driver of 2005, Canada aside where he showed his youth, which is forgivable, was close to Kimi on pace in an inferior car, can get a team working for him like Schumi can, far too many highlights to mention and great to see a guy who started the hard way with a season in a Minardi, rising to the summit. Absolutely no question here.

2. Kimi Raikkonen

probably the fastest, but made a fair few mistakes. At the Nurburgring everyone started about how unlucky he is, but it was a scruffy, messy drive in a car that really should have won comfortably. Great racer, overcame his Suzuka weakness with a fantastic win and should be title favourite for 2006.

3. Juan Pablo Montoya

by the end of the season he was matching Kimi for pace, and deserved the three wins; but the mistakes/misfortune just kept coming and his first third to the season was a disaster, off Kimi's pace, rarely finishing and his injury to compound the issue. But he redeemed himself. Unlucky not to finish third in the points, which is where he finished on merit.

4. Michael Schumacher

Not a great season, but still flashes of the brilliance that's taken him to so much success, you don't forget to drive overnight and drives like Imola were up there with anything from Kimi and Fernando. Towards the end of the season the usual sharpness seemed gone and he made a lot of mistakes, and regardless of the situation, when the chance was there to win his only race of 2005 he grabbed it in familiar fashion.

5. Nick Heidfeld

Shame he couldn't see out the season. Signed at the last minute, up against a team-mate who has the reputation of having beat every team mate he's had and moulding a team around him; and for as long as he was in the #8 Williams, actually edged Webber, which is an amazing acheivement. Race pace up there with the best but qualifying probably a relative weakness. Great stuff in Monaco.

6. Christian Klien

Pay driver, shouldn't be there?......coped with a very difficult situation where he was to the outside world clear number 3 at RBR, Liuzzi was the golden buy, Klien would drive in the first three races then be brushed quitely aside - but he did so well in his outings that he got a second chance and then held down his drive till the end of the season, regularly outqualifying a man with 13 GP wins and infinately more experience, in the end he only scored 9 points but had a huge number of 9th places too. Did a fantastic job.

7. Giancarlo Fisichella

Better season than it looked from the outside. Started well with a win but even then, with Alonso charging to third setting faster times throughout, there was an element of doubt that was confirmed in Malaysia where Alonso just drive away from him. Then came the bad luck, by the time he was finishing regularly again you get the impression he'd already been beaten psychologically. Outpaced Fernando in Spain but predictably had bad luck in the pits, great offensive drive at Hockenheim, in the last third of the season got on with it and drove some good races.

8. Jarno Trulli

good season, some stunning drives and some lacklustre ones, seemed to lose the plot in the last 2 or 3 races of the season which makes it easy to forget the stunning drives at Bahrain, Sepang and Catalunya, where he matched Ralf's pace despite having a damaged car. Overall I think he had a much better season than Ralf, was amazed to see he scored less points but that's F1. But still not convincing consistantly.

=9. David Coulthard

good season, happier, more relaxed, led races, drove very well. Rates behind Klien because really I expected him to blow his young team mate away and he never really did - but there's very little between 5th and 9th on this list.

=9. Jenson Button

redeemed himself after bad start, regular points scorer and some great qualifying performances, but that's about all you can say. Seemed to constantly start in a higher position than he finished, obviously the limitations of the car but I still get the feeling an Alonso, Kimi or MS would have done a lot more in the races than he did.

=9. Mark Webber

not bad at all, but there are only 10 places so finishes down a bit.

=9. Ralf Schumacher

see above.

[Heebeegeetee]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Heebeegeetee - I've noticed throughout many of your posts you don't rate Kimi - but he's made no more errors season than either DC or Michael Schumacher who you rate above him.

Since McLaren's sluggish start he's had to give 100% all the time for the rest of the season, which surely makes the odd over-the-limit incident more likely.

In terms of crashing out of a race, he's only done that once this year (Nurburgring) - just like Alonso (Montreal)

Kicking, you’re right. I am unimpressed by Kimi’s year, and I just can’t share the enthusiasm he engenders, not least on this forum. I don’t think DC or Schumi have produced as many errors, though I’ve no intention of trawling through race reports etc to prove it. Neither DC or MS have had cars as good as the McLaren, and its harder to produce fault free performances when you’re constantly battling with your equipment. Of course, it is up to the drivers to contribute to the success of their steeds, but both DC and MS have good records in this area, so it can’t be said that other drivers would have done better.

Kimi has made errors in a fantastic car. Yes, he has had to battle poor grid positions due to unreliability, but as I’ve always said, pressure is what these guys take big money for dealing with. Pressure sorts the men from the boys, and Kimi has been found wanting on a number of occasions this season. You say Kimi gave it 100% since their sluggish start, but everyone else was giving it 100% since before the start of the season. I realise I might be making a play on words here, but you might have hit the nail on the head. McLaren, and Kimi, perhaps did not give it 100% at the very start, its cost them and therefore rightly too.

I am not anti-Kimi, nor am I ‘fan’ of Fernando – I’m not into all that stuff. (Although I have been tremendously impressed by Fernando. His achievements and ability at his age are remarkable). The season starts again next year and it starts from a clean sheet. Time will tell if Fernando builds on his strengths or lets success dull his competitive spirit, and whether Kimi puts this year behind him and performs as he should. Or continues to make mistakes.

Just a word about DC. Leave everything else aside, who else out of the current grid could have matched DC’s season if they were in the Red Bull. Obviously, FA, KR, MS and I suppose JPM. And after that I’m struggling. I don’t think there’s hardly anyone else who could have achieved as much in what is a very junior team.

If you apply the same criteria to Ferrari, and bear in mind that Rubens finished 8th in the championship, I think you really have to wonder who else could have come third in the Ferrari. Fernando has shown the mental strength that a champion needs, and Kimi hasn’t, in my view. JPM had had another messy season, and I reckon there is no evidence that he would do better than Michael in the Ferrari. In fact, by these criteria, I think I’d place MS 2nd, then I’d have to think about third. DC or KR, given that you HAVE to think about their equipment to hand.

I’d question Kimi’s speed, too. Everyone and his dog keeps saying he’s the fastest driver, but he’s been in the fastest car all year, so how do we know? Consider that in Brazil for instance, FA had done a blistering time in qually, immediately putting Kimi under some pressure to perform. Kimi lasted no further than the first corner before he succumbed to pressure, and badly flat-spotted his tyre and not for the first time either. That is not what quick drivers do. Then in the race he needed to put in a Schumacher-esque series of laps to ensure he emerged in front of JPM after the second stops. He couldn’t do it.

In Japan, he couldn’t match his peers in the number of cars overtaken by the end of the first lap, and indeed he had been passed by his team mate. At least JPM then threw it off, to save Kimi from further embarrassment. Kimi enjoyed the luxury of having Fernando show him where and how to pass Michael, but again, he couldn’t do it. To me, that clearly showed who is the quicker driver out of KR and FA. Kimi could no more than sit behind Michael for a good number of laps whilst Fernando cleared off. Again, no quick driver would have done that.

In terms of speed, FA showed he was too quick for the FIA, in Japan. He allowed Klien to repass him so quickly the FIA hadn’t noticed, and by the time the FIA rescinded their instruction, it was too late and again Fernando had acted too quickly for them. That almost certainly cost him the win, although the initial fault in cocking up passing Klien was Fernando’s alone.

Come China, and again FA throws the gauntlets down to Kimi. Kimi was too slow, and started third, which meant he was stuck behind Fisi. The safety car robbed us of seeing who had what fuel, but Renault are saying that FA wasn’t light.

I forgot the one other driver who continues to impress me, which is Klien. I like him, he seems a feisty, gutsy racer. Wasn’t it he who kept Raikkonen’s McLaren behind him for umpteen laps a year or two ago?

After those I’ve mentioned, virtually every other driver has either underperformed or done no more than you’d expect them to, so I certainly shan’t bother to try to rank them in any order. All much of a muchness, I reckon. Some have been bad, like Sato, Ralf hasn’t been quite as incompetent as previous years, Montiero has done well I suppose, but once you get away from the top four or five, I have great difficulty in getting excited about anybody.

[Kicking-back]

I just think that playing down Raikkonen devalues Alonso's achievement too.

Both are excellent.

As for mental strength - I think that's overplayed - it wasn't one of those title battles where a lead ebbed and flowed by a few points here and there.

This wasn't about mental strength - if Alonso had had a couple of engine failures, Kimi could very well have been champion. Kimi has one of (if not the highest) seasonal point scores for someone not winning the title, incidentally.

As for Japan - he won the race - and it's only the position on the last lap that counts! He had a lot of fuel in at the start so it's inevitable he'd pass fewer cars.

It's all about opinions, this game, and my opinion is that Alonso and Raikkonen can't be separated on ability.

[Heebeegeetee]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I just think that playing down Raikkonen devalues Alonso's achievement too.

Ooh, I wouldn't agree with that.

Because of the way the championship has panned out this season, the two protagonists haven't had to duke it out with each other. Renaults and Alonso's championship has come about due to the way they went about their business, rather than what anyone else did. Renault and Alonso have worked flat out, all season, and got their just rewards.

I think where the test of character from Renault came in was by not responding to the speed, and the seemingly better reliability later in the season of the McLaren. I'm sure it would have been easy to have been spooked, in fact I'm sure lesser teams have done so in the past, and responded to a perceived threat and thus introduced unreliability, or the drivers started to make mistakes etc. It took faith by Renault to stick to the game plan, at least until the championship was won.

We now know they had something in hand, too. They were able to up the pace in the last two races without having engines go pop.

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

As for Japan - he won the race - and it's only the position on the last lap that counts! He had a lot of fuel in at the start so it's inevitable he'd pass fewer cars.

I agree. I didn't think it was a great win, I think there's a lot of hype on this one. People say Kimi's move was great 'cos it was for the win, but you know, when Fernando passed Schumi he wasn't planning on finishing third - that was for a win as well. And a move on Schumacher is better than a move on Fisichella any day - especially how, sadly, we now know how crap Fisichella is!

I was just making the point that in my opinion that race showed that we can't see who is actually the fastest out of the two. Its probably not that important, but I'd just like an explanation of how everyone reckons Kimi is the quickest, when I reckon the evidence points that he isn't.

Perhaps, over one lap, in clear air and under no pressure whatsoever, Kimi might be quick, but that's not worth much over a season.

Re fuel in Japan, did he have more fuel then Monty, who passed him?

Also, I think the safety car in China robbed us of a spectacle. I reckon Alonso has probably been irked of this talk of Kimi being the quickest, and how Renault have been lucky etc. (People will mistake excellence for luck). I can't help thinking that FA was on a mission to show us who's quick. A pole position and a win from lights to flag would have cleared the air a bit.

I must say, that I don't think FA has had many memorable wins this season. As I say, that's cos of the way the championship has panned out. I don't think FA has been put under pressure too much - apart from Imola, of course. That was only on one occasion, but it was a 10 lap long occasion. Now that was real pressure, the sort Kimi hasn't faced once, this year, and FA didn't so much as waver. Does anyone honestly believe Kimi would have passed Fernando on the last lap? In fact, as China showed us, kimi wouldn't have got close if that'd been FA's Renault instead of Fisi's.

Nope, its unfair to rate Kimi alongside Fernando. Fernando is younger and less experienced yet he's achieved more. At this moment in time Fernando is miles better.

[Adam43]

I disagree with you on most of your post, but it is your opinion.

However I am intrigued by this?

Originally Posted by Heebeegeetee

Nope, its unfair to rate Kimi alongside Fernando. Fernando is younger and less experienced yet he's achieved more.

Fernando is less experienced? They debuted in F1 at the same race. Alonso has had one less race year, but a full test year instead. Before that you could argue that Alonso was more experienced before that (he won a F3000 race, kimi came from FRenault!).

It is insignifcant, but I wouldn't say Alonso is less experienced, just younger.

[Heebeegeetee]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I disagree with you on most of your post, but it is your opinion.

However I am intrigued by this?

Fernando is less experienced? They debuted in F1 at the same race. Alonso has had one less race year, but a full test year instead. Before that you could argue that Alonso was more experienced before that (he won a F3000 race, kimi came from FRenault!).

It is insignifcant, but I wouldn't say Alonso is less experienced, just younger.

You're probably right. F1 starts are 85-68 to Kimi. I was of course discounting life outside Formula 1!

Not sure testing equates with racing, but I s'pose thats another argument.

[BootsOntheSide]

And what a life outside F1 Kimi has!

Seriously, I think Fernando's testing year was useful, especially as he already had a year of racing experience, adn by 2003 will have had a clear impression of how established teams do things, as well as the basic racing skill to succeed in any situation. Kimi will have had this as well. Interestingly, Fernando only had 2 seasons of car racing behind him before reachign F1 - both were prodigious immediately.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's all about opinions, this game, and my opinion is that Alonso and Raikkonen can't be separated on ability.

At what point did it change from Kimi being on top?

I am not trying to pick a fight or anything, but it is clearly a change in position.

[Heebeegeetee]

Originally Posted by Dutton

At what point did it change from Kimi being on top?

I am not trying to pick a fight or anything, but it is clearly a change in position.

Er, not quite sure what you mean, and apologies if I've pushed into a personal, little exchange, here.

But I must say, I had no idea that Alonso was going to perform as he did this year, no idea at all. I knew he was good, but there's a difference between being good and mounting a strong, near perfect, year long tilt at the championship.

I mean, I too thought Fisi was good. Untill that stupid pass on Webber at Malaysia, then I knew he wasn't.

[NO1SPECIAL]

Originally Posted by Heebeegeetee

I mean, I too thought Fisi was good. Untill that stupid pass on Webber at Malaysia, then I knew he wasn't.

But surely you mean the stupid pass by Webber on Fisi?
It's good to know that M. Brundle doesn't do the thinking for all of us....

[John Turner]

This is a great thread; let's keep it that way

[NO1SPECIAL]

OK, fair enough - 'twas a little harsh.

My top 10

1. Alonso: Near perfect, nothing more to say.
2. Kimi: was fast all year but blotted his copybook a couple too many times.
3. Coulthard: Never thought I'd rate him this high but has had a strong year.
4. M Schumacher: Challenged at times in a car that wasn't up to the task.
5. Button: Good pace, at least early in the race. Did he have a teammate?
6. Montoya: Dodgy start, some errors. Fast at end of season.
7. Webber: Ragged at times early. Came on strong towards season's end.
8: Heidfeld: Underrated but pushed teammate early. Could qualify better.
9. R Schumacher: Nowhere at beginning but good race pace most of year.
10. Trulli: Great qualifying. Slow at times in races but OK. Tailed off badly.

Credit also to Klien, who's clearly much improved. Monteiro as well, who I couldn't put in top 10 because I'm in the dark as to his pace or lack thereof.

[Heebeegeetee]

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

But surely you mean the stupid pass by Webber on Fisi?
It's good to know that M. Brundle doesn't do the thinking for all of us....

Have I got the right track?

I'm thinking of the incident where Fisi, on shot tyres, tried to outbrake a faster car on the slippiest part of the circuit, skated off, collected Webber then exclaimed to Louise Goodman "it's not my fault!".

I'm sure it was Malaysia.