Bring Back Australian Touring Car Championship

[mabs_nsx]

V8 Supercars SUX, bring back the Australian Touring Car Championhip!!!!!
The only thing I hate about it is that there are only two engine makes and they are holden and ford. (**** and ****er) They should put other engine makes in the series as well. They should be:

Holden
Ford (Australia)
Ford (US)
Honda
Nissan
Toyota
BMW
Audi
Mitsubishi
Volvo

Doing this would make it 100 times better and worth watching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[resisturban]

I wouldnt watch it....

why would i watch volvos and hondas racing?

[vatuloa]

Change a winner formular and you will loose out bigtime

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by resisturban

I wouldnt watch it....

why would i watch volvos and hondas racing?

Because Motorsport is more than just about Holden and Ford.

Whats wrong with Volvo's, Honda's, Nissan's etc

[lcfp2297]

Motorsport is also motorbikes, trucks, F1 etc etc etc...why not throw them all in together?

Where do you draw the line?

The line is currently drawn with Holden and Ford...live with it or move on...

[D.R.T.]

Why cant we work towards change ??

[KE30MAN]

Originally Posted by resisturban

I wouldnt watch it....

why would i watch volvos and hondas racing?

Well you're not watching Fords and Holden either. Ford suspension, Ford cylinder heads, Ford diff, Hollinger gearbox...

It's a one make series as far as I can see.

It's like sports sedans but with out the abilty to create anything unique. Everything has an expiration date.

[retro]

Originally Posted by KE30MAN

Well you're not watching Fords and Holden either. Ford suspension, Ford cylinder heads, Ford diff, Hollinger gearbox...

It's a one make series as far as I can see.

It's like sports sedans but with out the abilty to create anything unique. Everything has an expiration date.

...........Holden steering racks.........

[Conrod Kieron]

Steering racks are the same supplier for Falcon and Commodore

[retro]

Originally Posted by Conrod Kieron

Steering racks are the same supplier for Falcon and Commodore

Holden supply a few teams (Holden & Ford) with alloy steering racks. They are manufactured by (don't know the name of the divison) by Mr Gretch.

[racer69]

My signature sums up my opinion on it all............

[peckstar]

wow taxis doing 250kmh, id like to see that

time to get a different sig, i think

[racer69]

intelligent stuff........

If straightline speed of racing cars was all that mattered all anyone would watch would be NASCARs at Daytona or Land Speed record attempts.

[David Towe]

What is Australian about V8 Supercars? When you say Holden think General Motors US and Ford US, and we all know how well the yanks can build a car. Wasn't this series brought into being because Australians wanted to see Australian cars racing?

I race in the Touring Car Challenge because I want to be involved with something that has variety. There you'll see Fords, Holdens, Nissans, Toyotas, Volvos and my beloved BMWs, and all sorts of configurations within these marques, try it, you'll like it.

V8s have become stale, why else would even the organisers be talking about Mitsubishi and Toyotas elegibilty? Take away the crowd and what do you have? Processional racing in "Australian Nascars" where the only way past is to push your way through.

No I'm not a fan of V8s, and Mr Cockbrain has damaged Australian Motorsport to line his own pockets with no thought of the public or sport as a whole. I'm sorry for being negative, I try to stay away from the V8 fan's threads as I don't wish to be a negative person, but this thread is provoking people's opinions.

Sure the Group A rules nearly sent a few people broke with rule changes, but maybe a revised version of group A designed to rein in the ever spiralling cost of going motor racing could be a winner. I have no problem with most of the cars that raced during the Group A time but have to admit that I didn'yt like the domination of the Nissan GTR even though a mate of mine now owns one (and a pristine example at that) it was surely the car that killed Group A.

mabs see www.touringcarchallenge.com you'll like it.

[peckstar]

well what is that does matter, because you certainly have a different opinion to me

[peckstar]

dont you think thats a silly thing to say David

V8s have become stale, crowds are increasing, new people are discoveing motorsport, women are getting involved, money is being invested in R&D. thats not something that is stale. thats sounds like something with a vision and a direction

[Senna05]

Watch the GT-P then if you don't like Supercar!

[racer69]

Originally Posted by peckstar

well what is that does matter, because you certainly have a different opinion to me

Shouldn't the quality of the racing be what matters? You don't need cars that are enormously fast in a straightline to produce great racing.

F1 cars go very fast, does that alone make it exciting to watch?

Originally Posted by peckstar

V8s have become stale, crowds are increasing, new people are discoveing motorsport, women are getting involved, money is being invested in R&D. thats not something that is stale. thats sounds like something with a vision and a direction

Just because AVESCO say this doesn't mean it is happening?

It's common knowledge that AVESCO's crowd figure's they quote are more an estimate than fact. Sure the crowds are big, but you still had big crowds back in the Group A days. 13 years ago i know, but still soemthing to think about. Can crowds really still be going up 2000% at every round like is claimed, when they used to say in 1995 or so that Oran Park was choccas

Woman have always been involved in motorsport, money has always been invested in R&D (much more in Group A days, especially as the cars were derived from production models).

New people discovering motorsport? Or are new people just discovering V8Supercars, and only attend the street races at that, which really helps no one but the promoters pockets......

Senna05 - the point of the matter is that this series, from 1960-1992, was, in various different types of regulations, had the same principle's of GT-P, multiple manufacturers racing production derived models, and even in 1993 there were many manufacturers represented in the Championship (Ford, Holden, BMW, Toyota), and in 1994 you could still run a 2 litre car in the ATCC alongside the V8s....

How did we let the current situation come about?

[Senna05]

"Senna05 - the point of the matter is that this series, from 1960-1992, was, in various different types of regulations, had the same principle's of GT-P, multiple manufacturers racing production derived models, and even in 1993 there were many manufacturers represented in the Championship (Ford, Holden, BMW, Toyota), and in 1994 you could still run a 2 litre car in the ATCC alongside the V8s...."

That's your point -
My point is things evolve. Many millions of years ago, one molecule or cel was around, now there's billions of species of creatures, all of whice evolved and mutated.

If you don't like what the AATC has evolved into, simple - DON'T WATCH IT. You are at a crossroads, where the Aust GT Championship, ATC Challenge, etc, are all in their infancy stages, and people like you (and even me) can make these series mroe successfull with our patronage. We all know AVESCO won't change it's formula, so let's stop whining about it, and support these new series!

PS - I'd LOVE so see the Bimmer 3 serie vehicles, and Nissan's on the track with the V8's, don't get me wrong, but we need to be realisitc, don't we?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Senna05

That's your point -
My point is things evolve. Many millions of years ago, one molecule or cel was around, now there's billions of species of creatures, all of whice evolved and mutated.

If you don't like what the AATC has evolved into, simple - DON'T WATCH IT. You are at a crossroads, where the Aust GT Championship, ATC Challenge, etc, are all in their infancy stages, and people like you (and even me) can make these series mroe successfull with our patronage. We all know AVESCO won't change it's formula, so let's stop whining about it, and support these new series!

PS - I'd LOVE so see the Bimmer 3 serie vehicles, and Nissan's on the track with the V8's, don't get me wrong, but we need to be realisitc, don't we?

Agreed, but as you say, just because things are as they are know, doesn't mean it'll be like that forever.

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by racer69

Agreed, but as you say, just because things are as they are know, doesn't mean it'll be like that forever.

Spot on! Project Blueprint, whether you copnsider ti a move forward, or a move backwards, was a step further away from the productiopn bases.

Whats to say in 15 years, we won't have FF 3.5 Litre Tripple-Turboed Diesel's running?

[racer69]

I was angling it more in a hope to return to production roots, which is after all what they are meant to be promoting by racing Falcon's and Commodore's, but, as you say, who knows?

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by racer69

I was angling it more in a hope to return to production roots, which is after all what they are meant to be promoting by racing Falcon's and Commodore's, but, as you say, who knows?

I did read somewhere last year, that GM wanted a FF large platform car. I also read that they wanted to experiment with a Diesel 6.5 L Version of the Gen 5.

I might have mistakenly hit the head of the nail???

Take away the crowd and what do you have?

So how do you do that? They love it and without wanting to be jumped on, I can't see the fans steaming in to watch your series even if the grew tired of V8 Supercars - the closest contested top line tin top series we have ever had.

Group A's big problem is that never really took in the turbo factor. Many say that the GTR was nobbled, well I reckon that the Commodore was worse off. Due to engine displacement, the V8 carried far more weight (1300 kg) than the Sierra (1080 kg) yet produced less horsepower.

[EGG]

Motorsport is also motorbikes, trucks, F1 etc etc etc...why not throw them all in together?

gotta love the Dakar...