Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Motorsport History

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23 Jan 2009, 13:54 (Ref:2377563)   #101
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,647
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer
... Or maybe he installed a 3.4 engine and the scrutineers fell over laughing or something!!!...
I think this is more likely, the story rings a bell with me.
VIVA GT is offline  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 23 Jan 2009, 14:29 (Ref:2377588)   #102
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Off topic comment alert
I have to type this or my brain will explode!

I know someone who does that now!

Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 23 Jan 2009, 15:21 (Ref:2377613)   #103
GBRM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
England
Posts: 1,056
GBRM should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett
Well he was running it at Spa last September so sometime around July/August I think.
Ahh, spoke to Skid earlier and yes, Jess has bought the car for his son Sam. I've asked about the provenance and if nothing from Skid I will check with the horses mouth so to speak.
GBRM is offline  
__________________
Gregor Marshall
Quote
Old 28 Jan 2009, 18:02 (Ref:2381572)   #104
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,702
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Ladies and gentlefolk i'm sticking this thread in another attempt to give it a 'push'

Cheers,
chunterer
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 4 Feb 2009, 10:31 (Ref:2388039)   #105
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,702
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Reminder of the task ahead!!!!

Group 1 Ford Capri 3.0s:
Cars we know something about:
CC1 - Most probably Gordon Spice's first MKIII car.
CC2 - tbc
CC3 - Orignally built for Jeff Allam in 1978. Now owned by Ade Vickers, the Northern Sports Saloon regular.
CC4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19, all TBC.
CC20 - Originally built for Vince Woodman and campaigned in the 1981/82 seasons. Subsequently owned by Brian Chatfield and run in Group A and modsaloons. Then campaigned by other people in modsaloons and Northern Sports/saloons. Latterly owned by Ric Wood, restored and now residing in original spec and livery in Wiltshire.

There is some debate as to whether 20 or as many as 25 Capris were built. Some latter owners reckon only 20, but Dave Cook once advised that there were more likely to be 25 as a lot of the later ones were built for European customers.

So assuming that there were 25 Capri chassis numbers:
CC21,22,23,24,25 all TBC.

Dave Thomas's 'Group 2' car is ex Spice so I wonder if we can get the chassis number for that somehow? Can anyone ask Dave if he's still got it?

Then (SEE OTHER PROJECT THREAD):
CC26
CC27
Likely to have been the 1983 Grp A Mustang ETC & Opel Monza BTCC cars.

Group A BMW 635 CSi
CC28-CC31

The last major project car that the firm may have assigned chassis number to is:
Grp C Tiga Lambo.
CC32?

There's also a possibility that other cars the firm built or developed but may never have seen competitive action, or maybe were sold abroad were also given CC chassis numbers.

There's an awful long way to go with this folks!
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 4 Feb 2009, 10:37 (Ref:2388045)   #106
GBRM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
England
Posts: 1,056
GBRM should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBRM
Ahh, spoke to Skid earlier and yes, Jess has bought the car for his son Sam. I've asked about the provenance and if nothing from Skid I will check with the horses mouth so to speak.
Jess' car is an ex-prod saloon with flared arches, definitely not a CC car. HTH.
GBRM is offline  
__________________
Gregor Marshall
Quote
Old 4 Feb 2009, 20:40 (Ref:2388438)   #107
mark babb
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 7
mark babb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBRM
Jess' car is an ex-prod saloon with flared arches, definitely not a CC car. HTH.
Sorry quick side track here, would you have a contact email for Jess please.
Thanks
mark babb is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Feb 2009, 19:13 (Ref:2389262)   #108
E36ST
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
New Zealand
NZ
Posts: 232
E36ST should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Looks like Roger Townshend's Cologne Capri that was mentioned earlier in the thread is running at the Skope Classic at Ruapuna this weekend.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4837774a14595.html
E36ST is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2009, 08:25 (Ref:2389591)   #109
mark babb
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 7
mark babb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Does anyone back in the UK know of John Warren. He raced for years an immaculate 3 litre Capri which i imported a few years back. After reading thru all the threads again i know it had some of the items that CC Group 1 Capri's had and im just wondering if it is at all possible this was a CC car. It had a Neil Brown group engine and hewland box, it also had that funny bias valve lever near the handbrake which is identical to that on the Dave Thomas Car. I sold the car about a year ago but if anyone knows John warren he might be able to confirm history of car. It also had a fuel cell identical again to that shown on the dave thomas capri.... Ok these may all have been retro fitted to a mod prod Capri but there must be something that was unique to the CC capri's that we confirm... Im even thinking about the chassis number plate now or rather lack of one. i couldn't find one anywhere in all the typical ford places but it did have a plate under the bonnet that was completly different to a ford factory plate...it was just some basic numbers etc and i remember thinking crikey that looks dodgy oh well it's a race car so who cares.
Check my end to see if i can find a telephone number and maybe someone back in the UK could check with John the history. I believe he runs a Garage in Bartley green where ever that is (10 years away from home and i forget)
mark babb is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2009, 12:40 (Ref:2389746)   #110
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Hi Mark, I will ask Gerry Cain when I next speak with him as he was the last one running Mod Prods and I went up to Snett in what 2000, 2001 maybe even later to watch and John was there racing and I exchanged pleasantries.

There is a John Warren Cars listed here http://www.ibuckinghamshire.co.uk/pr...rren-Cars-Ltd/ but as its so near to me I wonder if its the same as I thought he was a northern lad.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 6 Feb 2009 at 12:44.
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2009, 05:05 (Ref:2390158)   #111
mark babb
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 7
mark babb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bartley Green service centre was sign written down the side of the car when it landed here. I believe this was his business just south of Birmingham.
mark babb is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2009, 05:18 (Ref:2390159)   #112
mark babb
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 7
mark babb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Has anyone spoken to Dave Weir about these Cars, i know it has already been confirmed that the present Group One capri he has for sale is not a genuine CC car however years ago i visted him at Ashington autos when he and Dave Thomas worked together and i am pretty sure he told me the Capri he had at that time was a genuine Group one Capri...he showed me the water cooled braking system etc that it had. Again long time ago but there could be some mileage in it.
mark babb is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2009, 08:54 (Ref:2390202)   #113
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
It was his father's car wasn't it?
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 7 Feb 2009, 10:49 (Ref:2390348)   #114
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Personally I don't think John Warren's car was the real McCoy as I am sure he built his own in the garage, I recollect he applied to race a Scorpio Cosworth but wanted to put the standard Scorpio manual box in it instead of the standard auto box but unfortunately it was for some inexplicable reason turned down although I voted for it. My mate had a genuine CC road car one that was given to them by Ford I believe for the directors to run around in I think he told me, he sold it not so long ago it was immaculate and not a fortune it had a CC badge under the bonnet declaring authentisity. Good investment for someone.
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 8 Feb 2009, 13:04 (Ref:2391035)   #115
Nordic
Veteran
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
West Sussex
Posts: 2,133
Nordic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Easter Monday 1981

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p56290823.html

Any idea who the driver is could it be Vince Woodman?
Nordic is offline  
__________________
Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better.
H S Thompson 1937 - 2005
Quote
Old 8 Feb 2009, 17:48 (Ref:2391165)   #116
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,702
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Hi Rupert, yes I believe that is Vince in the pic. I think he ran no 3 for the last couple of years of the Tricentrol series?

His main car was in the Equipe Esso colours as we know and the car in this pic was his 'spare' sometimes entered for John Buncumbe.

Back to the earlier points quickly as i've been away. Mark it certainly won't hurt asking any of the late road saloon/modidied saloon runners about what they remember about their cars. i don't know about Dave Weir's cars Dave Thomas' car is definitely an ex Spice CC Grp 1 car....

In the case of the road salooners, it's unlikely that anyone would've run an ex full race Group 1 car as a road race car (just too expensive!!) I suppose they might have used/copied certain CC bits for perfromance gains though perhaps?

A lot of them ended up in mod saloon racing in the 80's/90's with drivers like such Ade Vickers, Brian Chatfield, (both whom we've covered) plus other guys like ric Wood, Dave Streather, John Quatermaine, Terry Nicholls etc.. who we could do with more info on in order to try and trace the cars history backwards so to speak.
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 8 Feb 2009, 18:06 (Ref:2391176)   #117
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
In the case of the road salooners, it's unlikely that anyone would've run an ex full race Group 1 car as a road race car (just too expensive!!) I suppose they might have used/copied certain CC bits for perfromance gains though perhaps?
With repect Chunter if that was refering to my post we were definitely not Road Salooners, we had amongst others an ex-Brock Group A Commadore V8, an ex-Ian Khan BTCC Vectra, Alan Minshaw in his Golf etc etc etc plus a few home builts of course!
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Old 8 Feb 2009, 18:22 (Ref:2391187)   #118
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,702
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Oh lord yeah, but I was referring to the old style road saloon and mod saloon, not modprod cars Al!!
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2009, 19:59 (Ref:2397065)   #119
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,702
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Whilst peering at various other things I came across some Capris worth investigating that might have CC heritage...

Firstly Jesper posted a good link to some Zandvoort pics in the Rover thread. There's a couple of Capris in this collection, one in particular I'm thinking of is near the bottom of the page taken in 1983 featuring a MK3 following Joosen's TWR Vitesse, which has been discussed in the Rover thread recently, an RX7 and a Camaro. It's white with a diagonal logo down the side.

http://www.racehistorie.nl/cpz/cpz1_m.htm

Maybe Jesper or even some Dutch members like Frank De Jong can shed some light on this and the other Capris in this set?

Secondly i've come across a yellow Schweppes sponsored car lined up ready for the start of the '84 Spa 24 hours. It's in a Japanese homage to the event on You Tube. I'll post a link shortly. A lot of CC built Capris went to Belgium so there's a strong chance this isone of them and it would be useful to work out who's this one was at the time and maybe even before that!

Thirdly, on Frank's excellent 'ETC History' site, there's a shot of a lurid white,red and blue coloured car from a small selection of DRM pics taken in 1984. As with the cars above by the time thr shots were taken all of them would've been in Group A trim but maybe Frank or one of the German regulars can tell us more about it. Again i'll link shortly....

Last edited by chunterer; 13 Feb 2009 at 20:09.
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2009, 11:48 (Ref:2397362)   #120
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sorry, chunterer, but I have very poor knowledge of the BeNeLux scene, but here is a link to a few more continental Capris in action at Zolder 1981:
http://www.zandbak.net/classic/81egt...1egthrophy.htm

Regarding the German Capris I know little too, but there seems to have been German preparers of these cars with Eichberg, HWRT (future Wolf Racing) and Grab springing to mind, although they could have been sponsors only. Frank de Jong has ascribed most of these cars as 3 litre cars, but at least for Group A I think some of them were in fact the German 2.8 fuel injected variant. Here’s a picture of the German Besico Capri (Bernd Siller Company) from Brno 1982:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-13-009.jpg
The car is described as a 3 litre, but has a very visible 2.8 signature on the boot lid.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...Norisring.html
Look for the ninth placed Dieter Gartmann. What is described as a 3 litre here, German magazine Rallye-Racing says it’s a 2.8.

This is more speculation than facts, but what my nose tells me.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2009, 12:03 (Ref:2397372)   #121
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Certainly the homologation for the 3 litre expired at the end of 1982. This was when they discovered that the 2.8 engine was somewhat hamstrung by the siamesed ports.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2009, 14:42 (Ref:2397448)   #122
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Didn't know that the 3 litre homologation expired at the end of '82, but that would simplify matters regarding 2.8 or 3.0 in Group A racing from 1983 and beyond.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2009, 15:05 (Ref:2397454)   #123
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Production of the 3 litre ceased during 1981 according to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ca...2.80.931986.29
With five years added to the homologation that would mean a cut-off date in 1985 or 1986 (depending on production numbers during the final period of production) for the car in Group 1 or A. Here in Denmark 3 litre Capris were still racing in the combined Group 1/A championship by 1984 and Brian Chatfields BTCC cars from 1985 has been mentioned here as well. So, I would tend to disregard my previous post.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2009, 16:00 (Ref:2397477)   #124
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
The theory was that the 2.8 was lighter than the 3.0. However the homologation certs stop well before the 2.8 came in (in 1978 IIRC) so the 5 years would run to 1983?
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2009, 16:24 (Ref:2397492)   #125
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The 5 year extension of homologations was solely dictated by production numbers. For Group 1 and A it was 5.000 identical vehicles produced within a 12 month period. As long as production was kept above a certain number – which unfortunately eludes me right now – a model was considered in production and the homologation was extended for another year. Only when production fell below a certain number or was completely discontinued, the five year count down to termination of homologation was in actual effect.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Reply

Tags
andy rouse, belga, belgian touring cars, broadspeed, capri mk3, cc motorsport, cc racing development, chris craft, dave cook, equipe esso, gordon spice, group 1, group 1 capri, group 1.5, jeff allam, jonathan buncombe, martin brothers, neil brown, pete clark, spa 24 hours, swindon engines, tricentrol, vince woodman

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford Capri Mk III - Group 1 (CC Racing Developments) chunterer The Chassis History Archive 9 12 Feb 2016 19:50
Group Racing Developments (GRD) 374 Paul D Historic Racing Today 3 26 Jul 2013 07:19
Group 2/Group 1/Group A Anom(a)lous Cars Al Weyman Motorsport History 40 22 Aug 2012 22:09
Group 2 Ford Capri RS2600/3100 racing history and whereabouts (mega merge!) Peter Mallett Motorsport History 74 13 Oct 2011 19:43
Group 5 Zakspeed Capri question bubulle2 Motorsport History 10 19 Jan 2009 08:53


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.