V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by brown dog

What accusation?

I was merely conveying a warm welcome to the new person who has just entered the building!

Mate no probs, I get the drift, I just hate the haters on here. I suspect the worst of them are either jealous, or tied up with the 'old girls', NZV8's, in some way.

[EZY PEEL]

How many V8ST have been held up with these wharf strikes? How will this affect the opening round if delivery of parts (or even chassis) are held back 3 - 4 weeks?

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by GizzFan

Mate no probs, I get the drift, I just hate the haters on here. I suspect the worst of them are either jealous, or tied up with the 'old girls', NZV8's, in some way.

What about us realists?

[promax]

some people hear only what the want to hear Rev shame they're missing the big picture

[on_to_it]

That's a little pompous isn't promax. You can clearly see what nearly everyone else is missing?

[promax]

everyone on_to_it? maybe just the ones that stamp their feet and call people "haters" when they read things they don't want to read. history has shown a split in sport like this one.. hurts the sport. it's not about disliking the class, the teams, the drivers, the cars (well Rev might dislike the cars).. it never has been. it's more about what's good for the sport and this isn't a good thing for the sport.

[Biggy G]

Good to see an old sponsor returning to the sport:



From: http://www.facebook.com/MurphV8

[Icarus_nz]

Agreed, division hurts the sport but the prevailing view is that the sport was healthly in the first place.

There have been those that have suggested that the people who have split to create ST are in some way selfish or whatever. Look back over the last 30 years and realise that the major players have been instrumental in providing quality motorsport. These people are incredibly committed to the sport

This is not to suggest that if they all bought a fishing boat the sport would be rubbish. A new form would develop. But, I think that while every competitor is a stakeholder, some stakeholders are more equal than others.

I don't for a moment think the decision to break away was taken lightly.

The current T1 show has lost its STARS. If these stars had a value, and we know they do, then why has the current administration failed to retain them?

As for what makes good racing? I used to bemoan the lack of variety and hanker for the good old days with limited rules and a mix of machinery.
Speed costs money
Development costs money
There is only so much to go round.

With good drivers, mixed make racing can a display of playing to your strengths and exploiting the other guys weaknesses. In reality, better drivers get backed up by those with skillful wallets. The skillful wallets don't learn to drive any better (Think GT1)
Class racing contains costs and develops drivers.
I like the idea of racing as soccer. Each pass (goal) should be deserved.

Seeing cars driven sideways, excess blocking and avoidable contact is poor racing.

So good grids, big cars, fast cars, noisy cars.

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by EZY PEEL

How many V8ST have been held up with these wharf strikes? How will this affect the opening round if delivery of parts (or even chassis) are held back 3 - 4 weeks?

There's good news and bad news here.

The good news...... they are on the Rena unfortunately below decks.
The bad news is....... don't know how they are going to get them out of the cells with a list like that.

[Mr Revhead]

I don't exactly dislike the cars. I just think they should not all be running the same engine. i feel the concept is flawed. Also some of the politics and tactics involved and do not appeal to me.

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Agreed, division hurts the sport but the prevailing view is that the sport was healthly in the first place.

There have been those that have suggested that the people who have split to create ST are in some way selfish or whatever. Look back over the last 30 years and realise that the major players have been instrumental in providing quality motorsport. These people are incredibly committed to the sport

This is not to suggest that if they all bought a fishing boat the sport would be rubbish. A new form would develop. But, I think that while every competitor is a stakeholder, some stakeholders are more equal than others.

I don't for a moment think the decision to break away was taken lightly.

The current T1 show has lost its STARS. If these stars had a value, and we know they do, then why has the current administration failed to retain them?

As for what makes good racing? I used to bemoan the lack of variety and hanker for the good old days with limited rules and a mix of machinery.
Speed costs money
Development costs money
There is only so much to go round.

With good drivers, mixed make racing can a display of playing to your strengths and exploiting the other guys weaknesses. In reality, better drivers get backed up by those with skillful wallets. The skillful wallets don't learn to drive any better (Think GT1)
Class racing contains costs and develops drivers.
I like the idea of racing as soccer. Each pass (goal) should be deserved.

Seeing cars driven sideways, excess blocking and avoidable contact is poor racing.

So good grids, big cars, fast cars, noisy cars.

Hey i wish i had you eloquence! I am just glad we share the same end view.

[smokin'joe]

So........... all you guys that are pushing the barrow for NZST as being the best thing since sliced bread....................... will you eat humble pie if it all turns to custard???? doubt it.
i'm not saying it's a bad , bad thing. but the way the split was created is bad for the sport, and any entity fighting for the same spectator dollar needs to realise this.


the NZST series hasn't turned a wheel yet, has sevaral unconfirmeds, but the pastors at the pulpit are trying to preach to the great unwashed.

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

So........... all you guys that are pushing the barrow for NZST as being the best thing since sliced bread....................... will you eat humble pie if it all turns to custard???? doubt it.
i'm not saying it's a bad , bad thing. but the way the split was created is bad for the sport, and any entity fighting for the same spectator dollar needs to realise this.


the NZST series hasn't turned a wheel yet, has sevaral unconfirmeds, but the pastors at the pulpit are trying to preach to the great unwashed.

Apart from Johny Mac's running mate who else is unconfirmed?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by GizzFan

Apart from Johny Mac's running mate who else is unconfirmed?

more a case of what (not who) is unconfirmed. mentioned above that there is cars on the Rena, if so how many?? when will they be off the boat, or will replacements be sent out and those on the ship become spares or extra chassis to further bolster the grid????.

will there be a legal battle that could put a halt to proceedings due to the underhand way the series was created???

[Bikerider]

[QUOTE=smokin'joe;2997684]more a case of what (not who) is unconfirmed. mentioned above that there is cars on the Rena, if so how many?? when will they be off the boat, or will replacements be sent out and those on the ship become spares or extra chassis to further bolster the grid????.

Joe, i think your ****ing up the wrong tree, if you have a look at Face Book International Motorsport got there cars yesterday.... So no they are not still in Tauranga harbour.

Which would make it that all cars are now here ? They have just got a bit of work to do.

[Mark Petch]

OFFICIAL V8ST STATEMENT

I wish to advise that neither we, V8ST, or any of our team owners have race cars, chassis and or any other components on the Rena.

It is true that we have experienced some shipping delay, that will mean some delays to the completion of all 16 cars prior to Christmas, however we expect the very last components to arrive, by air, by Friday the 23rd this month, December 2011.

Mark Petch.
Managing Director.
V8SUPERTOURERS LIMITED

[KLR93]

baha... the rena...

[GizzFan]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

OFFICIAL V8ST STATEMENT

I wish to advise that neither we, V8ST, or any of our team owners have race cars, chassis and or any other components on the Rena.

It is true that we have experienced some shipping delay, that will mean some delays to the completion of all 16 cars prior to Christmas, however we expect the very last components to arrive, by air, by Friday the 23rd this month, December 2011.

Mark Petch.
Managing Director.
V8SUPERTOURERS LIMITED

well at least its official now, so i wonder how long before we see the first cars hit the black stuff?

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by Ugy

There's good news and bad news here.

The good news...... they are on the Rena unfortunately below decks.
The bad news is....... don't know how they are going to get them out of the cells with a list like that.

What a **** stirrer.

[Icarus_nz]

We used to have a truely kick arse class in this country. TraNZam.

What awesome cars! Some of the best racing this country has seen.

Back in 93 many of the same critisisms poked at TZ are those being trotted now against ST.

Now the simple souls among us will crow that 'TZ died and ST will too'
I think that is rather too simplistic.
I also think it is worth discussing WHY TZ died and consider whether ST management are learning from the past.

Also, what good stuff has been carried across?

Too expensive. Compared to an modified road car a purpose built race is so much easier and cheaper to maintain.

Engines too expensive. Addressed.

Body shapes not relevant to NZ - Addressed.

Car advantage easy to buy - Addressed.

Stars in Cars - Its back!

Grids too small. Even in the last years 8 TraNZams could put on a show. And 8 cars with the cream of Aussie, US and Kiwi drivers was sublime.

Etc. I'm too lazy to push the point but I invite the rest of you to have a go.
The question is highlighted in bold and deserves serious consideration.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Even in the last years 8 TraNZams could put on a show. And 8 cars with the cream of Aussie, US and Kiwi drivers was sublime

lol what year was that? even though i liked the Tranzam.. the class hardly produced close racing overall. apart from the first few years.. when the class was propped up with overseas drivers.. 1 or 2 cars used to run away from the rest of the field.

my lasting memory of Tranzam.. was seeing a Corvette leading a race at Manfeild.. told to slow right down and let Gilbert go by.. so Gilbert would collect more points over Pederson.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

We used to have a truely kick arse class in this country. TraNZam.

What awesome cars! Some of the best racing this country has seen.

Back in 93 many of the same critisisms poked at TZ are those being trotted now against ST.

Now the simple souls among us will crow that 'TZ died and ST will too'
I think that is rather too simplistic.
I also think it is worth discussing WHY TZ died and consider whether ST management are learning from the past.

Also, what good stuff has been carried across?

Too expensive. Compared to an modified road car a purpose built race is so much easier and cheaper to maintain.

Engines too expensive. Addressed.

Body shapes not relevant to NZ - Addressed.

Car advantage easy to buy - Addressed.

Stars in Cars - Its back!

Grids too small. Even in the last years 8 TraNZams could put on a show. And 8 cars with the cream of Aussie, US and Kiwi drivers was sublime.

Etc. I'm too lazy to push the point but I invite the rest of you to have a go.
The question is highlighted in bold and deserves serious consideration.

You made some good points. I'd agree and we will see how the public takes to it. It's game on now and the free market will decide.

Tranz-Am I would suspect died or started to die because it basically died out over here. SCCA Trans Am actually did pretty good into the 1990's with factory support, tv time and attached to events like CART Indycar races. And then politics and other issues got involved and it just went down hill. Once it becomes irrelevant over here, then where do you get your cars from, etc.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You made some good points. I'd agree and we will see how the public takes to it. It's game on now and the free market will decide.

Tranz-Am I would suspect died or started to die because it basically died out over here.

Correct. So there is another lesson learned. Make your domestic series relevant but not dependant on anyone else.

Yes Promax, the field did get spread out because as I said, it was possible to engineer/develop an advantage. Also, we never had the depth of talent back then that we have now. Class racing and data aquisition have taught drivers/teams to use the equipment to the maximum.

The other class I'm sure ST will be looking at to ensure they don't repeat the same mistakes as, is TRS

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

The other class I'm sure ST will be looking at to ensure they don't repeat the same mistakes as, is TRS

That's an interesting comment, please elaborate.

[Icarus_nz]

The first two seasons of TRS had an oversubscription of drivers and an undersupply of cars.
Despite the fact that you could (can) only use the car at official TRS days interest in the class was healthy.
People invested in cars thinking this was a win win partnership.
Increasingly greater numbers of chassis' were poured into the mix with the result that despite there being around 30 - 35 chassis availible to race the last few years they have struggled to field 12 cars (intl series) and 8 cars (domestic series)

Suggestions from teams as to how to make the cost of running cars more affordable have been largely ignored by an inconsistant sel- interested series manager.

By the 4th season, none of the teams that were involved at the beginning were still involved and the cars are worthless.
Primarily because you can't own an engine and use the car car however you please. (You could fit an engine and use it but ther regs state you would never be allowed to be involved with the series again in any way, and neither would that car)

Allegations of preferential treatment were never addressed satisfactorally, both performance and financially.

TRS was a class that arrived with enormous promise and quickly turned into a damp squib. It fostered some brilliant talent and produced some epic battles but is currently focussed on international money to prop it up. It is a failure of management.

Thats why I think ST management will be analysing where TRS failed