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Old 22 Jan 2018, 17:19 (Ref:3794320)   #101
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Would someone hand me a projected summary of the expected non-Oreca LMP2s for the 24 hours now? And which of them would you think could be rejected to the reserve list... the Riley surely is safe for the numbers alone of course
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 17:30 (Ref:3794329)   #102
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Racing Team Nederland is doing the full WEC season and they have a Dallara, so that's definitely one. United Autosports definitely with one or two Ligiers. Villorba Corse have announced ELMS + Le Mans plans I believe, and they're sticking to Dallara as well. Beyond that, it depends a lot on what ELMS teams pick I guess.

Right now, optimistically speaking, I suspect about 7 non-Orecas.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 17:55 (Ref:3794337)   #103
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Thanks, what about the BAR1 Riley though?

+ the Larbre Onroak of course, I cannot see them not getting the entry if Nicolet is in it
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:01 (Ref:3794340)   #104
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The IMSA invites went to JDC Miller for LMP2 and Keating for GTE-Am. No guarantee the Riley will get a slot, and with so many ELMS teams wanting in, chances are it won't.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:08 (Ref:3794343)   #105
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The IMSA invites went to JDC Miller for LMP2 and Keating for GTE-Am. No guarantee the Riley will get a slot, and with so many ELMS teams wanting in, chances are it won't.
But it's a Riley and no-one else has it, it looks pathetic for your self-created artificial spec manufacturer restriction if only 3 of 4 get in

One of the criteria for entry picking is "quality of the cars" as well as "technical interest", that alone should guarantee them a slot

ELMS teams have been thrown to the bin before, it's unsafe bet to enter that series nowadays if you hope for LM entry. Even ASLMS tends to be safer...

edit: it will also be the only time someone will be running Riley outside States IIRC, ACO wouldn't bother handing them those "joker" allowances or whatever they're calling bop there if they didn't expect to have them there

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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:14 (Ref:3794344)   #106
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Well, not sure the Riley quality is really up there, or if it's any more interesting than the rest of the LMP2 field. It's almost certainly not as good a car, and no offense to BAR1, but they may not match the top ELMS teams (yet). So I can see good reason for it not getting in.

You'll get no argument from me about the manufacturer restriction. It sucks. But if you have 3 good ones and lemon, it's not necessarily fair to give the lemon an entry just because it exists, whilst others achieve more.

Should just drop the restriction for the next generation. But we all know that anyway.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:20 (Ref:3794347)   #107
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Well, not sure the Riley quality is really up there, or if it's any more interesting than the rest of the LMP2 field. It's almost certainly not as good a car, and no offense to BAR1, but they may not match the top ELMS teams (yet). So I can see good reason for it not getting in.

You'll get no argument from me about the manufacturer restriction. It sucks. But if you have 3 good ones and lemon, it's not necessarily fair to give the lemon an entry just because it exists, whilst others achieve more.

Should just drop the restriction for the next generation. But we all know that anyway.
The new performance allowances for non-Orecas will artificially close the gap for this year, plus unlike Dallara and Onroak who will only be permitted to have aero dev, Riley will also be allowed to upgrade the chassis itself.

But even if they really don't make that much of a difference, it's not really the "build quality" of the Riley as per say, but just that it is the fourth officially recognized spec brand and therefore has more "brand quality" than another clone Oreca or GTE-AM. It's kind of a PR question for ACO as well to have them there, even if they were 20 seconds slower than everyone else it still looks better to have them there than not

In the olden days of non capping, sure you could leave Norma or Radical or whatever to the reserve list or plain deny them altogether, but back then it wasn't as much of a humiliation for the organizer to have low chassis variety as the market was wide open, not created to be that way. Plus LMP1 used to be healthier so the focus wasn't as much in the lower class
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:27 (Ref:3794349)   #108
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The gap should close, but at the Roar test, the Riley was 2 seconds off the best Oreca and Ligiers during a good session, and 4-5 in a bad. It should be better for sure, but right now there's nothing to suggest the gap is closed.

Whether or not the car gets in depends on what you want to see. Variety, or quality. For sure it'll be another different car on the grid, but the reverse argument is it'll just run around the back and not add anything. Hence why it's entry is not guaranteed. "Just another Oreca" is a valuable thing to a series organiser who want good strong car counts. Business side of it may come into it too. ELMS teams building entries and models around getting a Le Mans entry may give them an entry over a US entry with an underdeveloped car that doesn't need the entry. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying it'll have an effect.

What car Keating uses may be more interesting. Presumably there's a Corvette somewhere that Larbre isn't using. That'd be cool.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:37 (Ref:3794351)   #109
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The gap should close, but at the Roar test, the Riley was 2 seconds off the best Oreca and Ligiers during a good session, and 4-5 in a bad. It should be better for sure, but right now there's nothing to suggest the gap is closed.

Whether or not the car gets in depends on what you want to see. Variety, or quality. For sure it'll be another different car on the grid, but the reverse argument is it'll just run around the back and not add anything. Hence why it's entry is not guaranteed. "Just another Oreca" is a valuable thing to a series organiser who want good strong car counts. Business side of it may come into it too. ELMS teams building entries and models around getting a Le Mans entry may give them an entry over a US entry with an underdeveloped car that doesn't need the entry. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying it'll have an effect.

What car Keating uses may be more interesting. Presumably there's a Corvette somewhere that Larbre isn't using. That'd be cool.
The bop aero configurations for Daytona are different than for LM, notice 'sprint'
https://cdn.theapexracing.co/wp-cont...erformance.pdf

+ Riley run without most of it's EVO and components are still missing
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/da...ay-notebook-6/

The entry process at LM has never been based on fairness, it's always been bit shaky-shaky. Even the most loyal teams (and in fact factory entries) have been let to rot in favor of something that the ACO just wanted there, whether it's football star's team or whoever. Like it or not, the ELMS have most often be the ones getting the worst deal out of this, and this year looks to be another bad year for them I think (as whole). But you can partly lay the blame on there being far too many series now within the 'pyramid of endurance' thing as they call it
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:49 (Ref:3794356)   #110
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Yeah, the Daytona and LM kits are completely different. But the updates were to allow both the sprint and LM kits to close in, and the sprint kit is currently absolutely no where near, so there's nothing to really suggest then LM kit will be close - especially when the car is being built for IMSA and they don't use that kit. Unfortunately, if the Riley doesn't make dramatic improvements then we may be down to 3 chassis of a realistic choice really. Which makes the system even more ridiculous.

Totally the ACOs fault with the system, but I can see the Riley being left out as the only positive for it is variety. Obviously that's a big plus to many, but who know what they'll do.

Could just open up chassis and engine manufacturers like we had before. But hey, we've no room for that sort of thinking around here.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 18:59 (Ref:3794359)   #111
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If Riley wasn't -in advance- promised at least one safe entry, then I don't know why they'd bother draining money to the LM kit and other updates it in the first place. It would just be waste of time, kind of like CLM being rejected entry from Le Mans.

Also if the car was destined to be used as IMSA-only from now on, they could just lobby IMSA to bop the car-as-they-please, which is of course what that organization does on round-by-round basis for the OEM-badged vehicles in the series.

ACO is opening the selection process for the upcoming generation II of LMP3 so I guess with the similar mind set there's a possibility of same thing happening in LMP2 too, with either 5th/6th mfg or someone just replacing Riley.

Anyway, despite the Porsche pullout thank god we have healthy privateer LMP1 now and don't have to rely so much on LMP2 this year for providing the goods. It'll be semi-interesting backdrop to the main show but not something I'm gonna loose sleep over
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 21:33 (Ref:3794392)   #112
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I don't think BAR1, nor its drivers during the Roar and coming 24h of Daytona can extract the most out of the Multimatic/Riley. You would think BAR1 applies for Le Mans with a lot of Multimatic support and better drivers (Renger van der Zande perhaps?). To show prospective clients the car/chassis has improved and able to be as quick as the other chassis'.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 12:50 (Ref:3794947)   #113
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Thanks, what about the BAR1 Riley though?

+ the Larbre Onroak of course, I cannot see them not getting the entry if Nicolet is in it
"Alder said he plans to submit the team’s entry request for the 24 Hours of Le Mans next week. Should its entry be granted by the ACO, he indicated they could elect to skip a few WeatherTech Championship races in order to fully prepare for the French endurance classic."

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/da...ay-notebook-8/
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 12:51 (Ref:3794948)   #114
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You wouldn't think so in the current climate.

I was idly wondering if Ben Keating might hook up with Larbre and their renta-Corvette. He has an entry but no car and seems to like front-engined muscle cars. So much for that...
"Ben Keating, who ran the Riley LMP2 chassis in the race last year, is expected to announce his Le Mans plans tomorrow morning during a press conference. Keating received an auto-invite, for use in GTE-Am, courtesy of winning the Bob Akin award last year in GT Daytona.

***The Texan’s planned GTE-Am effort is understood to involve a longtime IMSA team."
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 16:09 (Ref:3794992)   #115
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Keating + Risi in GTE-Am:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/k...gte-am-attack/
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 17:40 (Ref:3795026)   #116
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So that looks like 12-16 cars in GTE Pro, depending on whether the IMSA Porsches and Fords are accepted.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 17:49 (Ref:3795030)   #117
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So that looks like 12-16 cars in GTE Pro, depending on whether the IMSA Porsches and Fords are accepted.
They will be, serious manufacturer entries are never turned down.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 19:17 (Ref:3795061)   #118
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They will be, serious manufacturer entries are never turned down.
Indeed

It's gonna be a bun fight. I can't wait.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 20:08 (Ref:3795078)   #119
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Is Ford confirmed to run 4 cars yet? I hope so.

Also I wonder what the car numbers of the BMW will be. It appears they will run the same livery as they run in IMSA. I like the continuity as Ford and Porsche do the same. I just with the IMSA Porsches had car numbers 91 and 92 instead of the silly triple digits.
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Old 25 Jan 2018, 23:18 (Ref:3795138)   #120
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They will be, serious manufacturer entries are never turned down.
There have been exceptions like factory PRO Aston Martin rejected for reserves in 2012 but yes you are right they won't be

Anyway I'm glad Risi is co-entering with Keating's automatic entry as that means one less GTE as whole requesting entry and competing against potential LMP2 spots in the que

As for BAR1 I hope they would enter Spa now that they're consider skipping IMSA races if (when) they receive LM entry, it would give clearer picture of the LMP2 pace
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Old 26 Jan 2018, 07:32 (Ref:3795196)   #121
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There have been exceptions like factory PRO Aston Martin rejected for reserves in 2012 but yes you are right they won't be
That was after the AMR-One debacle in '11, don't forget. One might see it as the ACO punishing Aston for building such a **** car.
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Old 26 Jan 2018, 07:39 (Ref:3795198)   #122
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Anyway I'm glad Risi is co-entering with Keating's automatic entry as that means one less GTE as whole requesting entry and competing against potential LMP2 spots in the que
Have to say, although I too have a strong bias towards prototypes, I'm actually disappointed by that announcement. I love watching the single Risi entry in Pro taking on the multiple entries of the factories. I shall miss that.
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Old 26 Jan 2018, 08:08 (Ref:3795206)   #123
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That was after the AMR-One debacle in '11, don't forget. One might see it as the ACO punishing Aston for building such a **** car.
Well Victor, it might of been a dreadful car but it sounded good when it ran and probably added thousands to the gate and the ACO will have loved that, The reasons for the latter treatment of AM is unlikely to be related to that and after all the AM GT cars have a good record.
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Old 26 Jan 2018, 15:07 (Ref:3795273)   #124
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Have to say, although I too have a strong bias towards prototypes, I'm actually disappointed by that announcement. I love watching the single Risi entry in Pro taking on the multiple entries of the factories. I shall miss that.
I agree.
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Old 27 Jan 2018, 13:20 (Ref:3795406)   #125
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DSC has reported that there is the potential for a GTE-Pro entry from Risi still.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...ock-notes.html
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