FIA GT World Championship 2012

[I Rosputnik]

Talk about developments, this seems like a good way of keeping the championship alive. Although I wonder if we might see this crazy 2 cars per manufacturer rule being enforced...

Nissan must be pleased to hear this.

[NaBUru38]

It was an obvious move to let GT3 cars in the world championship. Grids will hopefully grow. Now, performance balance will be even harder to enforce.

[Bonanza]

As far as I can see, the 2 car team thing might actually be beneficial, providing there are enough manufacturers. Ferrari, mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, maybe even Spyker or Jaguar will be able to join the fray along with possible returns of Maserati and Saleen. Along with the current GT1 grid, it could make for a mouth watering line up whilst putting less pressure on the manufacturers to have two 2-car teams. Whilst this is wishful thinking it's certainly plausible, despite the inevitibly tedious performance balancing saga that will ensue.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

As far as I can see, the 2 car team thing might actually be beneficial, providing there are enough manufacturers. Ferrari, mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, maybe even Spyker or Jaguar will be able to join the fray along with possible returns of Maserati and Saleen. Along with the current GT1 grid, it could make for a mouth watering line up whilst putting less pressure on the manufacturers to have two 2-car teams. Whilst this is wishful thinking it's certainly plausible, despite the inevitibly tedious performance balancing saga that will ensue.

I'm not sure Saleen's homologation didn't expire this year let alone 2012.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I'm not sure Saleen's homologation didn't expire this year let alone 2012.

possibly, though it seems to me SRO are always open to extending homologations, didn't Maserati and Aston have their homologations extended for 2010, let alone 2011?*

*I may be wrong because I am no expert on sports car racing, but something like that.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Corvette, Aston, Saleen, Maserati GT1 won't be eligible in 2012.

[Jameson]

Originally Posted by Stranger

Corvette, Aston, Saleen, Maserati GT1 won't be eligible in 2012.

With their current GT1 cars no, but I guess Corvette and Aston could easily do something with their GT2 or GT3 cars, no?

[Jameson]

It's funny to see people wondering how Ratel can let GT3 cars race in GT1. Well, we should remember that those cars will be upgraded to GT1 and hence become GT1 cars and stop being GT3 cars - whatever it means (aero, engine, chassis, suspension, electronics, weight). In any case, it makes sense to do something with existing and attractive cars (such as 458, SLS, R8) instead of hoping to find a manufacturer to build just 2 cars which can not race anywhere else.

However, isn't there anyone else wondering what a Z4 is doing in a sportscar series? It looks amazing, but I still see it as a touring car and its road car version is nowhere near the prestige of the other ones out there.

As for the different classes, we shouldn't be splitting hairs. I don't care if a car used to be in GT3 and is now developed to GT1. It doesn't make it a lesser GT1 compared to something that was developed only for it. And I don't care if GT3 is just 2-3 seconds off the pace of GT1 or GT2 (GTE) getting too close to GT1 or GT3 getting faster than GT2, because all that doesn't matter as long as all of these have their own championships with enough cars and good teams & drivers and usually don't race against each other.

I'm happy to see that GT1 which I like a lot with some hesitance, seems actually being able to make it. The only thing I'm scared about is that it will become similar BoP circus that current GT3. BoP always divides people in two groups, but I think that the current GT1 BoP is great and the current GT3 BoP is crap. I hope the future GT1 will not become as bad as the current GT3, because then Ratel is just shooting his own leg and losing all the credibility he still has.

[JAG]

A number of these potential entries like the Z4, R8, 458 and SLS are dependant on the respective manufactuers producing official upgrades.

If given the go ahead costs will be high as there's only a market for a couple of cars and spares.

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by Jameson

It's funny to see people wondering how Ratel can let GT3 cars race in GT1. Well, we should remember that those cars will be upgraded to GT1 and hence become GT1 cars and stop being GT3 cars - whatever it means (aero, engine, chassis, suspension, electronics, weight). In any case, it makes sense to do something with existing and attractive cars (such as 458, SLS, R8) instead of hoping to find a manufacturer to build just 2 cars which can not race anywhere else.

However, isn't there anyone else wondering what a Z4 is doing in a sportscar series? It looks amazing, but I still see it as a touring car and its road car version is nowhere near the prestige of the other ones out there.

As for the different classes, we shouldn't be splitting hairs. I don't care if a car used to be in GT3 and is now developed to GT1. It doesn't make it a lesser GT1 compared to something that was developed only for it. And I don't care if GT3 is just 2-3 seconds off the pace of GT1 or GT2 (GTE) getting too close to GT1 or GT3 getting faster than GT2, because all that doesn't matter as long as all of these have their own championships with enough cars and good teams & drivers and usually don't race against each other.

I'm happy to see that GT1 which I like a lot with some hesitance, seems actually being able to make it. The only thing I'm scared about is that it will become similar BoP circus that current GT3. BoP always divides people in two groups, but I think that the current GT1 BoP is great and the current GT3 BoP is crap. I hope the future GT1 will not become as bad as the current GT3, because then Ratel is just shooting his own leg and losing all the credibility he still has.

I think you are confusing GT and sports cars when you talk about the Z4. Traditionally a Grand Tourer (GT) was a big car with sporty look and a sports car is a small two seater (think AM DB4 vs MGB).

The 'new' GT class wont have GT1/2/3 it will be GT ! BOP will be used to get 'equal' performance across all cars. Take the restrictors out of a GT3 corvette, SLS and MP4 and install carbon brakes and they will be at GT1 speed (if that is the speed Ratel is after).

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Jameson

However, isn't there anyone else wondering what a Z4 is doing in a sportscar series? It looks amazing, but I still see it as a touring car and its road car version is nowhere near the prestige of the other ones out there.

Actually I think the Z4 is a lot more of a GT racer than the M3, which just looks like a touring car (especially the GT4 version). I wish they raced with the fabulous-sounding straight six engine like the older Z4, though - the current GT3 car sounds like its ill...

[MitchZ06]

Would it be at all possible to build a GT1/2/3 'hybrid' that could run in the series? Say a GT3 style car with GT1 aero, etc?

[alexkiller8]

basicly the fia GT champ has become the new dutch champ... all kinds of car mixed....

[Marcel ten Caat]

?

[alexkiller8]

!

[Senna-F1God]

So, if I understand correctly...

The FIA GT and the ILMC are gonna merge next year and will race finally alltogether???

In God´s Sake...that´s just Common Sense!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Senna-F1God

So, if I understand correctly...

The FIA GT and the ILMC are gonna merge next year and will race finally alltogether???

No.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Senna-F1God

So, if I understand correctly...

The FIA GT and the ILMC are gonna merge next year and will race finally alltogether???

In God´s Sake...that´s just Common Sense!

Simply put, in 2012 we will have two sportscars world championships. The FIA GT World Championship (GTWC) is a world championship for sprint based sportscar races using GT1, GT2 2009 and GT3 run by the SRO. The FIA World Endurance Championship (WEC) is a world championship for endurance based sportscar races using LMP and GTE cars run by the ACO.

In short, GTWC is for your sprint runners and WEC is for your marathon runners.

[chunterer]

Got to be a good chance for lurid who does what, who goes where discussions now surely?

Ratel will clearly want things like the SLS, 458 and R8 in with the Lambo (presumably Reiter will do a Aventador), Aston, Nissan (got their bets hedged with a GT1 and GT3 version....) and Corvette (see Nissan but they have GT1, 2 AND 3 models IIUC!!). BMW can run the GT2/GTE thingy or, that nifty MZ4 device?

Where Porsche fits into this i'm not sure?

I reckon a new Jag XKRS would be a great addition and Prodrive could develop a new Vantage V12 to replace the DBR9?

So a few weeks ago when Ratel said he expects several new makes in a his world series next season, he knew this announcment was coming and we didn't!

Can't wait to see who, what enters and what new cars may materialise!

[mirkob]

Ratel wants 12 cars, I think:

01 Nissan (GT-R GT1/GT3)
02 Ford Matech (GT GT1/GT3)
03 Lamborghini (Murcielago GT1, Gallardo GT3)
04 Ferrari (F430 GT2, 458 GT3)
05 Porsche (RSR GT2 , GT3-R GT3)
06 Corvette (P&M C6R GT1, P&M Z06 GT2, Callaway Z06 GT3)
07 Aston Martin (DBR9 GT1, Vantage V8 GT2, Vantage V12 GT3)
08 BMW (M3 GT2, Z4 GT3)
09 Audi (R8 LMS GT3)
10 Mercedes (SLS GT3)
11 McLaren (MP412C GT3)
12 ???

[MitchZ06]

This is how I see it going...

01 Nissan (GT-R GT1)
02 Ford Matech (GT GT1)
03 Lamborghini (Aventador GT1)
04 Ferrari (F458 GT2)
05 Porsche (RSR GT2)
06 Corvette (P&M C6.R GT2)
07 Aston Martin (Vantage V12 GT2)
08 BMW (M3 GT2)
09 Audi (R8 LMS GT3)
10 Mercedes (SLS GT3)
11 McLaren (MP412C GT3)
12 Lotus (Evora GT2)

[JAG]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

This is how I see it going...

01 Nissan (GT-R GT1)
02 Ford Matech (GT GT1)
03 Lamborghini (Aventador GT1)
04 Ferrari (F458 GT2)
05 Porsche (RSR GT2)
06 Corvette (P&M C6.R GT2)
07 Aston Martin (Vantage V12 GT2)
08 BMW (M3 GT2)
09 Audi (R8 LMS GT3)
10 Mercedes (SLS GT3)
11 McLaren (MP412C GT3)
12 Lotus (Evora GT2)

Question is are grids down this year due to lack of cars, or interest.

You'd need 10-12 teams, ATM some are running four cars, lastly if cars need modifying, that's added development and spares expensive, costs that cannot be covered by customer sales.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06
This is how I see it going...

01 Nissan (GT-R GT1)
02 Ford Matech (GT GT1)
03 Lamborghini (Aventador GT1)
04 Ferrari (F458 GT2)
05 Porsche (RSR GT2)
06 Corvette (P&M C6.R GT2)
07 Aston Martin (Vantage V12 GT2)
08 BMW (M3 GT2)
09 Audi (R8 LMS GT3)
10 Mercedes (SLS GT3)
11 McLaren (MP412C GT3)
12 Lotus (Evora GT2)

The GT2 cars only will be allowed the 2009spec.

Originally Posted by mirkob
Ratel wants 12 cars, I think:

01 Nissan (GT-R GT1/GT3)
02 Ford Matech (GT GT1/GT3)
03 Lamborghini (Murcielago GT1, Gallardo GT3)
04 Ferrari (F430 GT2, 458 GT3)
05 Porsche (RSR GT2 , GT3-R GT3)
06 Corvette (P&M C6R GT1, P&M Z06 GT2, Callaway Z06 GT3)
07 Aston Martin (DBR9 GT1, Vantage V8 GT2, Vantage V12 GT3)
08 BMW (M3 GT2, Z4 GT3)
09 Audi (R8 LMS GT3)
10 Mercedes (SLS GT3)
11 McLaren (MP412C GT3)
12 ???

This is the dream grid and completely possible.
Number 12 mark can be:
Alpina B6, Spyker C8, Morgan GT3, Ascari GT3, Maserati MC12, Saleen S7, or maybe Lexus LFA

[cmk]

Why would Lambo (Reiter) produce a new GT1-spec Aventador if they could run a GT3 car in this series and many others for little additional development cost? Even building a new GT3 to replace the current Gallardo family still seems like a better investment.

As a separate point, the 2009-spec GT2 car thing is bizarre to me. Why would manufacturers want to be involved running cars that they don't even sell anymore (eg. Ferrari 430)? I guess the independent developers might be (see Matech Fords) but the GT2 cars are largely developed by factories or under contract from them...

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

This is how I see it going...

01 Nissan (GT-R GT1)
02 Ford Matech (GT GT1)
03 Lamborghini (Aventador GT1)
04 Ferrari (F458 GT2)
05 Porsche (RSR GT2)
06 Corvette (P&M C6.R GT2)
07 Aston Martin (Vantage V12 GT2)
08 BMW (M3 GT2)
09 Audi (R8 LMS GT3)
10 Mercedes (SLS GT3)
11 McLaren (MP412C GT3)
12 Lotus (Evora GT2)

02 - Ford Matech - are you sure there'll be any of those racing anywhere in 2012? Isn't there already a shortage of parts while Matech went bust?
03 - there's no Aventador racecar in the works that anyone heard of. 2012 is coming soon (next year in fact ;-). Gallardo LP-something-or-other is likely though.
06 - 2009-spec GT2 Corvette had a 'transitional' engine based on LS7.R, 6.5l I think. Is it even eligible? There were 2 chassis, are there any left? In any case Z06 GT3 seems more likely (a great deal less expensive).

I think most teams would like to run GT3 cars, don't forget we're talking about 1-hour banger racing, so cars don't need to be very reliable, they need to be cheap, and BoP will take care of the performance. Why spend more?