msa 5.2.7

[big andy]

The following change has been noted in the MSA Blue Book for 2013 in section J.what effect will this have on the many championship that allow wings spoilers etc .



5.2.7. Aerodynamic devices may only be fitted to
Racing and Sports Racing Cars (unless prohibited by
an Approved Formula), or where specifically permitted,
where FIA homologated, or where complying with
National type approval. Such devices must not extend
beyond the maximum width of the vehicle, above the
maximum height of any roof, or for an open car the
maximum height of the ROPS, or extend longitudinally
from the bodywork by more than 100mm.

[Austinspace75]

Might reduce the size of some aero parts on some cars, but other than that I can't see it'll make much difference.

Even if your car isn't a single-seater or sports racer or its aero devices aren't FIA or type approved, if aero devices are 'specifically permitted' in your champ/series of choice and meet the dimensional regulations you're still good to go AKAIK.

Not sure what the regulation actually achieves in reality, but my guess would be arse-covering/removal of something that was creating exposure, and/or the prevention of massively oversized bolt-on crap clouting some poor unsuspecting soul.

[Dave Brand]

The only change is the addition of "or for an open car the
maximum height of the ROPS,".

A quick look at the photo galleries on the Clubmans Register website confirms my suspicions that it will have an effect!

[Austinspace75]

Had a look and agree some look close, but only from certain camera angles. If the 'tog is on the level though, it looks like the roll hoop is way above on many of those cars.

[haggispeed]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

The only change is the addition of "or for an open car the
maximum height of the ROPS,".

A quick look at the photo galleries on the Clubmans Register website confirms my suspicions that it will have an effect!

You're right Dave, there are some Clubmans Cars that may be effected. There are specific measurements in the Clubmans Formula regulations concerning the maximum height and distance from the rear axle centre line, (rather than rear bodywork), for rear aerodynamic devices. At the moment it is under discussion with the MSA on what should be done where a rear wing that may be legal as far as the formula regulations are concerned would be illegal with the change to J5.2.7

There is a lot of discussion elsewhere on this site with the impact this reg may have on tin tops.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by haggispeed

You're right Dave, there are some Clubmans Cars that may be effected. There are specific measurements in the Clubmans Formula regulations concerning the maximum height and distance from the rear axle centre line, (rather than rear bodywork), for rear aerodynamic devices. At the moment it is under discussion with the MSA on what should be done where a rear wing that may be legal as far as the formula regulations are concerned would be illegal with the change to J5.2.7

It's always amazed me how far some Clubmans cars' rear wings are behind the rear axle centre line - there's an enormous moment about the rear axle centre line which must be producing noticeable lift at the front wheels. Obviously works, though!

I think a few other cars may be affected - Clubmans were just the ones that immediately sprang to mind!

There is a lot of discussion elsewhere on this site with the impact this reg may have on tin tops.

I haven't seen that. Don't why anybody's worried, though -just take a look at the 2012 Blue Book!

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

there's an enormous moment about the rear axle centre line

Is that the enormous moment you have just before spinning off backwards into the barriers?

[haggispeed]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

It's always amazed me how far some Clubmans cars' rear wings are behind the rear axle centre line - there's an enormous moment about the rear axle centre line which must be producing noticeable lift at the front wheels. Obviously works, though!

Ah it's all an optical illusion Dave, there are specific dimensions laid down in Clubmans regs (2012) that no rear aerofoil may extend 100cm behind the rear wheel axis. On some cars such as Mallocks there is framework and paneling behind the rear axle but on others (such as mine) the paneling (bodywork) stops at the rear axle so it looks like the rear wing is hanging way out the back.

As for the enormous moments - you don't need a rear wing to create those believe me !! Although I do know from experience that you can get lift at the front if you have too much wing.

My current understanding around J5.2.7 is that if specific dimensions are provisioned within the formula regulations then these effectively overide the general blue book regulation, however formula technical regulations have to be approved by the MSA So far the 2013 Clubmans regs have yet to be approved by the MSA.

Further discussion in this is happening in the Northern Sports & Saloons thread.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by haggispeed

Ah it's all an optical illusion Dave, there are specific dimensions laid down in Clubmans regs (2012) that no rear aerofoil may extend 100cm behind the rear wheel axis. On some cars such as Mallocks there is framework and paneling behind the rear axle but on others (such as mine) the paneling (bodywork) stops at the rear axle so it looks like the rear wing is hanging way out the back.

100cm - that's a metre in real money. . . a fair old distance!

Further discussion in this is happening in the Northern Sports & Saloons thread.

Ah, that's why I haven't seen it. That thread's become too long & convoluted for me - lost me about a year ago!

[haggispeed]

.

[haggispeed]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

100cm - that's a metre in real money. . . a fair old distance!

Well I guess in the Classic class it must be 39 inches.... in real money

but just have a look at some other sports racing cars and see where the wing is in relation to the rear axle centre line, quite a way back you'll find.