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Old 14 Jun 2017, 18:38 (Ref:3741328)   #136
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
I don't consider your sport healthy when its top class' immediate future is teetering on one car maker's decisions and the fact that privateer teams may or may not show up.

But the ACO made their bed, and now they have to lay in it, whatever comes. They're reaping what they sowed. They got what they asked for, and now they have to pay the piper.
I'm sorry, can we enforce a one idiom/proverb per post rule? An limit Eeyore postings to once per hour?
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 18:46 (Ref:3741332)   #137
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Great discussion.
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If LMP1 turns into what it's equivlant was after Group C and IMSA GTP died, I'll be happy. But I'm more worried about the ACO once again getting it wrong. They went for short term instant gratification with the rules instead of long term stability, and the bubble has clearly burst. Will they learn from their errors, or make the same mistakes trying to fix the current mess?
Yeah ... but the racing has been good. if they get it wrong a gain and it works out this well, that's okay too.

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Granted, if LMP2 didn't have a spec engine and chassis/cost caps, it'd be a viable replacement, just like how the original GT2 class became GT1 after the original GT1 class died and became LMGTP.
Which I think we all know is what would be most likely to happen.

A modified P1-L would become the top class--essentially P2 cars with fewer development restrictions. An inexpensive class, relatively (at least at the start) because teams could modify existing P2 chassis and use proven engines.

Even the FIA could figure that one out if they needed to in a hurry.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 12:11 (Ref:3741602)   #138
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
That's a tad alarmist. The sport is perfectly healthy. The class is not. If you lost the top 10 teams in football, the sport would survive, and adapt and recover just fine. We wouldn't suddenly think that the entire English football league was going to go away in we lost Man Utd and co.

Again, should we lose LMP1 works teams, we have LMP1 private teams supposedly on the way. Should those not arrive, DPi could become a backup plan. However ACO already has enough LMP2 and LMP3 cars to form a small army. GTE is looking very healthy, and GT3 has around 1 car for every individual human on earth too - which is why the ACO has put it in the Le Mans Cup - it's a backup plan.

Nobody will disagree that LMP1 is not in the best of health, but the entire sport and series is doing fine and there are many backup plans should it not work out great for P1 cars. Let's not get carried away here.
I would be totally okay with a P2 based top class. They're still blindingly quick, and just need the DPi "adjustments" to make it manufacture friendly if needed.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 12:43 (Ref:3741613)   #139
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I've not been the biggest fan of WEC, the tracks they race at (outside of LM and Spa, of course) and the very top heavy feeling of LMP Hybrids (which is another topic altogether). It's been a little wonky from the start, with less than 5 total manufacturers involved so it's never been a strong format, imho, but that's not my concern with LM or Sportscars right now. The constant finagling with BoP in the production categories just leaves a lot of unknowns and it's really starting to dampen results.

I've recently discovered an easy way to watch Irish Road Racing. Now THERE'S some great racing. Variety is the spice of life!
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 12:49 (Ref:3741618)   #140
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I would be totally okay with a P2 based top class. They're still blindingly quick, and just need the DPi "adjustments" to make it manufacture friendly if needed.
And they're fast. Remember when the ACO was aiming for an LMP1 reference time of 3:30? Now the LMP2s are below that.

It would be a shame losing the amazing hybrids, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. There's plenty to love about privateer racing. Rebellion versus SMP versus G-Drive for the win would be plenty exciting.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 14:16 (Ref:3741644)   #141
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Rebellion versus SMP versus G-Drive for the win would be plenty exciting.
And all of them free to choose their own engines as well .... Hybrids are cool in theory and the numbers are impressive (10000 bhp!!!) but the cost in obviously prohibitive.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 14:31 (Ref:3741647)   #142
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thing is, once you let money get over involved and huge factory teams with massive budgets and sponsors in this roping off thing always happens.

It is even going on in rallycross for goodness sake, guys breaking down in a field in Norway or Germany and a team of mechs going over with a tarp to put over the front of the car. It's pathetic.

I would never go to WEC again after this year at Craperstone, couldn't get anywhere near the garages, all roped off and even if you walked down the side of a truck you were looked at as if you were some sort of criminal.

If I could have asked for my money back I would, one of the poorest shows and pieces of work I have witnessed I am afraid.

Even the bloody ELMS teams were doing it, which means it comes from up top.

And that means count me out buddy, you treat fans like second class citizens, you get no money from me.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 15:01 (Ref:3741657)   #143
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I say bide your time with this one and hopefully in time for next season more LMP1 manufacturers will join. At least with this one there should be a fascinating Porsche vs Toyota battle, with Toyota determined to get revenge from last time
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 15:04 (Ref:3741661)   #144
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I would never go to WEC again after this year at Craperstone, couldn't get anywhere near the garages, all roped off and even if you walked down the side of a truck you were looked at as if you were some sort of criminal.

And that means count me out buddy, you treat fans like second class citizens, you get no money from me.
Send this to WEC please. I mean it.

You Euros might get to see all the best cars, but in the States, I can stand a few feet away from the garages and watch the mechanics tear down the engine or gearbox---I can see the cars with the bodywork removed. I see drivers walking around so often I hardly notice.

Racing does Not benefit from the snooty F1 attitude. Take the fans away and your big team guys are all working in garages and car dealerships.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 15:10 (Ref:3741664)   #145
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Snotty F1 attitude? Like the Kimi fan in Spain getting a free visit to the Ferrari garage? Or Fred joining the fans in the grandstand only last Sunday? I think F1's attitude is if anything getting better
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 15:54 (Ref:3741683)   #146
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Snotty F1 attitude? Like the Kimi fan in Spain getting a free visit to the Ferrari garage? Or Fred joining the fans in the grandstand only last Sunday? I think F1's attitude is if anything getting better
The fact that there are Two notable (and exceedingly notable, I grant you) incidents since ... 1951 says all I wanted to say.

And Alonso's action came after seeing what IndyCar is like.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 16:02 (Ref:3741686)   #147
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Or, you could say "Two notable incidents since the start of the year", which would use the same stats and twist that the other way. F1 has made changes, lets not deny that.

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And Alonso's action came after seeing what IndyCar is like.
Oh come on man.
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