[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by loon

then perhaps remove points whenever the team managers tell a big fat fib

A new award then for the most negative team.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by loon
then perhaps remove points whenever the team managers tell a big fat fib

Originally Posted by sizzle

A new award then for the most negative team.

Lol, Red Bull becomes the new Sauber / wooden spooners!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by sizzle

A new award then for the most negative team.

The award for being most in tune with the fans?

[S griffin]

Yes, too many championships have reverse grids, it certainly doesn't feel right in junior single seaters

[F1Guy]

Bernie Ecclestone wants F1 to be an all electric series.

Bernie Ecclestone : "We still own the name Formula One, we still have contracts with promoters, let’s make different types of cars, let’s speak to the manufacturers and start a new all-electric F1, a Formula One for the future"

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...P=share_btn_tw

[S griffin]

And I always thought he hated the new hybrids for being not loud enough, what a berk

[Peter Mallett]

He's just following the money.

If the sport was peopled by enthusiasts as it was back in the day, then the view would be different. It's only the manufacturers who want "road relevance", the enthusiasts want proper cars.

[Akrapovic]

He's just throwing hand grenades into the room for fun. What Bernie actually thinks is completely unrelated to what Bernie says.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Bernie Ecclestone wants F1 to be an all electric series.

Bernie Ecclestone : "We still own the name Formula One, we still have contracts with promoters, let’s make different types of cars, let’s speak to the manufacturers and start a new all-electric F1, a Formula One for the future"

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...P=share_btn_tw

I thought Liberty now owned the name Formula One.

[E.B]

He is probably (possibly) saying that in his non executive position as Chairman Emeritus of Liberty.

[Paradise City]

That's pure classic Eccelstonian anti-Liberty trolling.

Why, the guy was moaning that the cars weren't noisy enough a short time ago.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

He's just throwing hand grenades into the room for fun. What Bernie actually thinks is completely unrelated to what Bernie says.

Space filling. He has no say in any of it anymore. Ignore him and eventually he'llgo away.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He's just following the money.

If the sport was peopled by enthusiasts as it was back in the day, then the view would be different. It's only the manufacturers who want "road relevance", the enthusiasts want proper cars.

This was the original evaluation of the Mercedes engineers on the current F1 power units.

KERS not relevant to road cars.


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...vant-road-cars


So who is it that actually thinks these rubbishing things are road car relevant?

Just plain marketing garbage?

[Peter Mallett]

Not entirely sure of your point. The overall road relevance is that these vehicles are trying to be "green".

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not entirely sure of your point. The overall road relevance is that these vehicles are trying to be "green".

Sorry Peter this was not an implied criticism of your post, it was a criticism of the view that these PU's have any road relevance as spruiked by the FIA.
Adding 40% to the weight of the cars to generate about the same amount of energy as contained in about 4 liters of petrol over a GP distance is not and never will be green. It may be very profitable for a lot of snake oil salesmen in various professions, but it is not green, or road relevant other than screwing consumers over for a profit.

Bad for racing too!

Here is where efficiency will be found:

Mazda pursuing diesel and weight reduction over hybrid tech

https://www.themotorreport.com.au/ca...ech-69176.html

[Peter Mallett]

Ah, got it thanks.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by wnut

Here is where efficiency will be found:

Mazda pursuing diesel and weight reduction over hybrid tech

https://www.themotorreport.com.au/ca...ech-69176.html

Should keep up to date, both articles are almost a decade old AND Mazda has dropped the diesel expansion plans after not passing emissions without the needed heavier systems. They are still sticking with their SkyActiv build style emphasizing efficiency in all areas over adding hybrid as of yet.

Now if you'd like to stick with the Mazda theme and their research, they are researching and will be launching a semi-sparkless gas (petrol) engine operating at high compression like a diesel while retaining the 'classic' sprak system for low rev and starting capability.

[Mike Harte]

wnut, as I have said a few times previously, the main board of directors of Daimler Benz only gave the green light for Mercedes to continue in F1 after the team were able to show that the current PUs, even with all their additional weight, are able to move the cars at least as quickly as previously but with a fuel saving of at least 15%.

In fact, I believe that Mercedes are now able to use up to 25% less fuel, and that is why Daimler Benz had been investing on the technology some time before 2010/11 when the new regulations were formulated.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Should keep up to date, both articles are almost a decade old AND Mazda has dropped the diesel expansion plans after not passing emissions without the needed heavier systems. They are still sticking with their SkyActiv build style emphasizing efficiency in all areas over adding hybrid as of yet.

Now if you'd like to stick with the Mazda theme and their research, they are researching and will be launching a semi-sparkless gas (petrol) engine operating at high compression like a diesel while retaining the 'classic' sprak system for low rev and starting capability.

Gasoline diesel, not oil diesel, maybe not clear in original post.

I posted this in the Road Car Forum - not one response

Mazda HCCI / SPCCI gasoline compression ignition engine.

Mazda has announced what is considered the holy grail of petrol / gasoline engines, the Homogenised Charge Compression Ignition engine.
The engine will be introduced into Mazda production cars from 2019. A 2 litre HCCI engine is claimed to be as powerful as a 2.5 litre engine with the economy of a 1.5 litre engine. The engine burns a much leaner charge than it is possible to ignite with a spark, and has much higher combustion pressures which generate more power than conventional spark ignition engines for the same amount of fuel, and much lower emissions than current petrol or diesel engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhzMGbQXmY

Looks like carrying batteries around will soon be a thing of the past.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

wnut, as I have said a few times previously, the main board of directors of Daimler Benz only gave the green light for Mercedes to continue in F1 after the team were able to show that the current PUs, even with all their additional weight, are able to move the cars at least as quickly as previously but with a fuel saving of at least 15%.

In fact, I believe that Mercedes are now able to use up to 25% less fuel, and that is why Daimler Benz had been investing on the technology some time before 2010/11 when the new regulations were formulated.

This is all basically horse Mike.
Mercedes had spent billions developing KERS and realized with the right set of rules nobody could compete against them in F1 with their sunk technology cost.

The efficiencies are coming from advances in the ICE, not the KERS, ERS and batteries.
It is worth noting that RBR only went to hybrids systems after the axle masses were regulated, during the first year, they, and others preferred to move the ballasted equivalent of the weight of the system around the car for handling tweaks, KERS is not even worth its weight in ballast!

If the system is truly advantageous, make KERS open, regulate the total fuel to be used in the race, and bring the F1 minimum weight limit back to 500kg.

What's the bet nobody would run KERS?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by wnut

Gasoline diesel, not oil diesel, maybe not clear in original post.

I posted this in the Road Car Forum - not one response

Mazda HCCI / SPCCI gasoline compression ignition engine.

Mazda has announced what is considered the holy grail of petrol / gasoline engines, the Homogenised Charge Compression Ignition engine.
The engine will be introduced into Mazda production cars from 2019. A 2 litre HCCI engine is claimed to be as powerful as a 2.5 litre engine with the economy of a 1.5 litre engine. The engine burns a much leaner charge than it is possible to ignite with a spark, and has much higher combustion pressures which generate more power than conventional spark ignition engines for the same amount of fuel, and much lower emissions than current petrol or diesel engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhzMGbQXmY

Looks like carrying batteries around will soon be a thing of the past.

Yeah, because most of us have read similar information and a discussion actually involves both parties being informed and not full of the proverbial horse droppings. Sadly one party is usually full of that and thus not worth the effort for a discussion, as evidenced by the poorly researched and massively outdated and often incorrect information referenced in pursuit of being correct. Sadly often wrong and thus just not worth the effort to speak at, won't say debate or with because that involves a 2 way exchange, that party cause I'd rather bash my head in to a wall. It's less painful and well it might count as home improvement.

[chillibowl]

season hasent started yet and Renault are already talking about using more then 3 engines and taking strategic penalties throughout the season.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...lties-1009578/

i assume Abiteboul is just talking about the factory Renault team doing this but its hard to imagine that their engine customers wont find themselves in the same boat.

and if its tied to their engine updates/upgrade schedule then i would think there is a very real possibility that Renault, RB, and Mclaren will be taking them in the same races.

i suppose good news is that we may see one or two races where all 6 cars are at the back of the grid and have to fight their way through...there could be an upside here.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Yeah, because most of us have read similar information and a discussion actually involves both parties being informed and not full of the proverbial horse droppings. Sadly one party is usually full of that and thus not worth the effort for a discussion, as evidenced by the poorly researched and massively outdated and often incorrect information referenced in pursuit of being correct. Sadly often wrong and thus just not worth the effort to speak at, won't say debate or with because that involves a 2 way exchange, that party cause I'd rather bash my head in to a wall. It's less painful and well it might count as home improvement.

Good for you. Nice post.

[wnut]

interesting article regarding oil burning during qualifying, which Renault hasn't pursued and now Horner believes it may disadvantage RBR during qualifying. Oil burn target set for race, but open in qualifying.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...-burn-loophole

[wnut]

At last! This is a MASSIVE STEP in the right direction by the FIA! Engine parity!

"The FIA recently sent a technical directive to all F1 teams reinforcing the existing requirement for engine suppliers to give identical hardware to their customers by insisting that henceforth all cars also have the same software and operating conditions.
Customer teams now also have to receive identical fuel and oil specifications to works cars, unless they have opted for a different supplier." Adam Cooper F1 Reader.


http://www.f1reader.com/news/mercede...ampdown-190775

This is by far the most significant development in F1 in years imo, well done the FIA!