S2000 replaced by tubechassis V8´s ?

[mildura1963]

Why not just re-invent the Group A days of the 80's & 90's to suit todays cars.

[gttouring]

what was with the triple post sorry

[werner]

And what whas about the video, wich was not from 88-92 and not from the DTM?

[gttouring]

i like the early 90's-99 BTTC best although DTM then was wicked I cared little for the "new" bewinged version...
actually mansell driving anything was wicked good

[Speed-King]

The rumors were true

I am not sure if I really understand the part about a Nordic S2000 series, though, does this mean DTC and STCC will merge next year?

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The rumors were true

I am not sure if I really understand the part about a Nordic S2000 series, though, does this mean DTC and STCC will merge next year?

As understood that article, DTC will morph into a Nordic V8 series with 4 events being run together (same weekend, but different races) with the STCC and STCC will also visit Denmark 2x per year. Looks like a really good solution for the fans as both series will help boost each other.

[werner]

If a few Danisch stars choose to do the STCC, then that will have a great impact on the very unofficial but nevertheless prestigious battle of which championship is the best European S2000-series, STCC or BTCC.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by werner

If a few Danisch stars choose to do the STCC, then that will have a great impact on the very unofficial but nevertheless prestigious battle of which championship is the best European S2000-series, STCC or BTCC.

BTCC won't be an S2000 series by 2011... so STCC wins by default

[duke_toaster]

BTCC will be phasing out S2000 at the time. And there's the no-idea-when transition to 1600cc turbos in the WTCC ...

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

BTCC will be phasing out S2000 at the time. And there's the no-idea-when transition to 1600cc turbos in the WTCC ...

And the end result is: a total mess.

Hardly any country will share rulesets by 2012 and I don't think this will be a good thing!

Last year I started a thread on here, about Touring Car Racing having reached the end of one of it's usual ten year cycles and how it needs to reinvent itself, but hardly anyone agreed with me. But now it seems like Mister Gow and Mister Elgaard do indeed see a need for change. Unfortunately everyone is working on their own and we'll end up with a big rules chaos. I think we can once again blame the FIA and their inability to adress the shortcomings of the current S2000 rules for that. The Turbo 1600 thing might solve the gasoline vs diesel controversy, but it doesn't help in regards to the escalating costs.
If WTCC makes it into 2011, the only series of importance that'll share rules with them will - perhaps - be STCC.

I'll go on record here and say that 5 years from now we'll view this decade if not as a golden than at least as a silver age of touring car racing and we'll curse the powers that be for their lack of cooperation and foresight.

[duke_toaster]

Yes, there's likely to be a messy situation. Ideally there would be NGTC for national series (or S2000 chassis with NGTC engines) and a separate formula for the world championship (ideally aiming to kill off the DTM) - something based on rallycross division one with RWD only should do the trick there.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Maybe we should try to get away from the question of the morality of V8s and get back to the issue at hand - namely the possibility of a Danish V8 Silhouette-series and the possible move away from S2000.

Peugeot appear happy to be officially represented by carbon-fibre 407 bodies, powered by a Chevrolet V8 engine in Brasil.

There's no logic in them not being happy with the same thing in Denmark then! Simple!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

The problem isn't really relation to the road car but the fact that the factory doesn't really have much control about what is done. The A4 DTM is still an Audi (well, except for the engine ), just not an A4. The P&M silhouette would be a P&M car.

That's why you need racing by privateers (professionals of course, not gentleman racers <- slow) who can gather genuine viable sponsorship (enough to race before manufacturer dollars) like NASCAR and V8 Supercars... Only happens if cars are fun and lots of people come to watch!

[FIRE]

Is there any news about the car and engine? On page 1 of this topic Pratt & Miller rumored to supply the tubeframe chassis.

[duke_toaster]

Don't they build the Camaro Cup car? In which case could it be a rebodied C.C. car?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Don't they build the Camaro Cup car? In which case could it be a rebodied C.C. car?

No, Camaro Cup car is developed by Kinetic (Nic Johnsson) according this topic:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117780

[gttouring]

still all of this can't be built by P&M...
but a simple rule set might work, i don't see how its less expensive though.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by gttouring

still all of this can't be built by P&M...
but a simple rule set might work, i don't see how its less expensive though.

Suppossedly, S2000 cars are wickedly expensive to run, which is said to be mostly due to the fact that they need a lot of maintenance and eat spareparts like candy...

This could of course be changed under a new formula, be it silhouettes or unibody-based cars like in the new BTCC-ruleset.

[nickyf1]

Hmmm, would make sense to mabey adapt the NGTC rules or something. V8 Sillhouettes... Nah.

[V8 Fireworks]

Why not a spec tubeframe and the manufacturers can bring their own turbocharged engine (maximum 3L) producing around 700 hp (with suitable manufacturer bodywork to go over the top)? European tourers no longer to be considered slow and buzzbox-like but fast, loud and spectacular machines?

BMW/Mercedes/Toyota(Lexus) could bring 8 cylinders, most of the marques 6 cylinder, the likes of Volvo could bring 5 cylinder motors and Mazda could bring a rotary... giving great variety.

[helgi]

Well,and how will they equalize these variety? It's the most interesting thing in touring car racing now.

[duke_toaster]

Costwise I think the idea of cars of that level of power, coupled with the inevitable circuit licencing problems, would probably eliminate the idea of 700hp tube frame turbos for national level racing.

Realistically I think NGTC is the best way forward for national level (just allow RWD as well and junk the intake restrictor for lower rev limits to increase engine life). I don't like the 1600cc prong of the world engine fork, it just sounds fragile if they want to go up to 450hp with them.

I think the best solution is for a general worldwide conversion towards 2000cc turbo with similar rules, just tweak rev limits, boost pressure (CART style safety valves) and funky parts. Could make F3 engines cheaper to run, use it for NGTC, rallying, and so-on.

For the WTCC I think the best starting point would be the Division 1 rallycross rules. Then get rid of four wheel drive (rear), go to pressure and rev limiting not intake restrictors, stick some slicks on, go for a standard wide track to provide lots of mechanical grip (but huge wheelarches) and flat floors. Should open it up to new base models really.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

For the WTCC I think the best starting point would be the Division 1 rallycross rules. Then get rid of four wheel drive

Why? Makes no sense at all to dumb down the cars to 2WD if you start with 4WD.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Why not a spec tubeframe and the manufacturers can bring their own turbocharged engine (maximum 3L) producing around 700 hp (with suitable manufacturer bodywork to go over the top)? European tourers no longer to be considered slow and buzzbox-like but fast, loud and spectacular machines?

If you go the silhouette route (Ullrich wants that for DTM) than a spec tubeframe chassis (or at least very strict rules so there's not much room for development) is the best way. Manufacturers only have to supply engines (e.g. 4L V8 500 bhp) and bodywork. Both have to be available for customers so no special parts for factory teams. Privateers are in my opinion a vital part of touring car racing so costs much be reasonable.

Now about DTC. Moving to a silhouette series can be a good way to cut costs. But I am not sure we will see different "manufacturers" (= different bodywork). In contrast to USA (and the new Brazilian Stock Car series) in Europe manufacturers aren't happy with spec cars (see V8Stars, Audi in BTCS). So if this results in one spec bodywork (like in Dutch BRL-V6 and BRL-Light) I am afraid it will be a series which looks more like a cup series instead of the highest form of motorsport in Danmark.

Still a shame there's no cooperation between BTCC, DTC and STCC. Instead of a market for 20~30 cars it would be 60~90 cars.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by FIRE

In contrast to USA (and the new Brazilian Stock Car series) in Europe manufacturers aren't happy with spec cars (see V8Stars, Audi in BTCS).

As I remember, not every manufacturer think the same way.
In general, manufacturers must hate every private team's serie, because they can't influence on their car's fate (dont tell me, that they can do it by producing good road cars, because roadcars too differ from racecars).
But if they want, they must contact with good team (like Zakspeed) and drivers (like their works drivers), so this combination can get them the same advertising effect as works team in serie with free tech reg.