F1 Finance - What is going on?

[chillibowl]

finding myself a bit shocked at these numbers. i feel like the number range usually used is that top teams were spending in excess of 200mil a year, where as these numbers are claiming twice or more that level.

[Mike Harte]

Only if the numbers were accurate, which I somehow doubt. The linked article refers to another article as the source, and that article only claims that the figures are estimates.

[chillibowl]

true, its only shocking if these 'estimates' are accurate.

also the numbers are estimates for revenue and not what is actually spent so not sure how much we should infer from it anyways.

as usual, always more questions then answers when it comes to F1 finances.

[Richard C]

It shows teams like Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari all roughly being the same (give or take a bit). However two build their own engines and two are customers. I have to imagine that building your own costs more than being a customer even after factoring money received from the customers (?)

My point is that I wonder if there is some money missing in those figures that would increase the "total spend" values for Ferrari and Mercedes? Regardless, those numbers could be accurate, or very inaccurate. Would we ever know?

Richard

[wnut]

It is my belief that Mercedes have spent more money on buying their dominance than anybody would believe. Just look at their management structure salaries plus their driver salaries. Then add the PU development expense which I believe was a total money is no object exercise, we don't care what you spend so long as you bring us results!

They read the rules and spent the money when it counted, up front! Good planning!

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

It shows teams like Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari all roughly being the same (give or take a bit). However two build their own engines and two are customers. I have to imagine that building your own costs more than being a customer even after factoring money received from the customers (?)

My point is that I wonder if there is some money missing in those figures that would increase the "total spend" values for Ferrari and Mercedes? Regardless, those numbers could be accurate, or very inaccurate. Would we ever know?

Richard

Could be Ferrari and Mercedes run the engine parts of the company separately so would not come under these figures.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by alan1302

Could be Ferrari and Mercedes run the engine parts of the company separately so would not come under these figures.

I would say yes.

McLaren too now they have Honda!?

[wolfhound]

I see where the two teams that applied to join F1 have failed the FIA test so it will be 11 teams next year.

I wonder who they were as it was one the leading GP2 teams ART.
http://uk.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia...tries-for-2016
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120325

[wnut]

Originally Posted by wolfhound2

I see where the two teams that applied to join F1 have failed the FIA test so it will be 11 teams next year.

I wonder who they were as it was one the leading GP2 teams ART.
http://uk.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia...tries-for-2016
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120325

Jean making sure that his son doesn't get financially ruined by the current regulations whilst ensuring there will be a future place available on the grid?

[Mike Harte]

According to an article on Motorsport dot com, Force India and Sauber have now formally raised a complaint with the EU about the financial and regulatory manner in which the sport is being run, describing it as being a "cartel".

Don't expect to see much on the TV of the cars of those two teams at Sochi.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...laint/?v=2&s=1

[bella]

*gets the popcorn ready for about 2050, because that'll be how long it takes the eu to find their backsides and make a judgement about it*

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bella

*gets the popcorn ready for about 2050, because that'll be how long it takes the eu to find their backsides and make a judgement about it*

They had better hurry up or Bernie will drop off the perch before they can ask him anything.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bella

*gets the popcorn ready for about 2050, because that'll be how long it takes the eu to find their backsides and make a judgement about it*

Bella, you are, of course, quite right. However, it is the threat of an investigation that can create the fear of terror into the minds of those being looked at, and the last time that this happened, the FIA and FOM did make changes (not necessarily for the better, though) in their structures. That, after all, is how BCE got his hands on the commercial rights of F1 for the next millenium or however long it is!

[Casper]

I imagine that any organisation under investigation would have a lesser value to any potential buyers and doesn't CVC have an end date to get out?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

*gets the popcorn ready for about 2050, because that'll be how long it takes the eu to find their backsides and make a judgement about it*

Don't worry I can come up with it now for you...!

'After an extensive (and probably expensive) enquiry the EU found there was no case to answer'

[littleman]

I believe, and actually rather hoping, that F1 is on the verge of becoming a Supernova.

Ideally Ecclestone and the like's will vanish and the sport can be re-born for the better.

[wolfhound]

Bernie has been told about the complaints from Sauber and Force India and seems well prepared for what will happen, or is he?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121081

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bella

*gets the popcorn ready for about 2050, because that'll be how long it takes the eu to find their backsides and make a judgement about it*

That's about right bella , is the EU run by Todt by any chance ..
Being back Max Mosley for crying out loud and let's get something done ..
F1 Is run out of an old folks home at the moment ..
Yes I know I am one, so I have been told???

[wolfhound]

At the moment the way F1 is run it appears to be about screwing as much money as possible out of as many people as possible and giving as little as possible back to the sport as possible.
This cannot last forever as a breaking point will be reached and the results are anybody's guess.

[wolfhound]

Joe Saward has been writing on the subject of how F1 is run and suggests the basis of how it could be run for the benefit of all involved.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015...he-f1-problem/

I think it is basically a sound theory but how do you get those involved to back it?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

...but how do you get those involved to back it?

by appealing to their greed!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Joe Saward has been writing on the subject of how F1 is run and suggests the basis of how it could be run for the benefit of all involved.

That assumes it's run for the benefit of all involved. It's not, it's run for the benefit of the owner, who has no interest in anyone else beyond what benefit they can bring to him.

[Mekola]

F1 is a piramidal fraud. Only the owner and the best team wins, the rest are losing money and finishes in dissolution. Bernie must be in jail as is Madoff.

[Casper]

Saward is writing about idealism and that will never work in a for profit business and if it ever existed left F1 when BE arrived. I see all the Fanbois agree with him, he certainly likes his ego stroked and hates anyone telling him he is wrong or dissenting for his POV.

[Greem]

Saward's entitled to his opinion, just as we all are. Doesn't mean we all have to agree *or* disagree, and if he is forced to live in an echo chamber by virtue of the wonderful debating skills that his detractors have, so be it.

I happen to agree with some of what he says, and disagree with other bits. I find his writing style a bit awkward (it's all a bit too first-person for me) but I'd never let that get in the way of someone sounding off. He's at least articulate, really rather knowledgable, and he doesn't simply follow the herd like lots of other writers on the matter.