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Old 24 Apr 2017, 10:30 (Ref:3728859)   #46
BLiTZ
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BLiTZ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
Id personally like them to bring back the morning warm up for the BTCC cars on race day. It would allow teams to treat it as a mini test session if need be and also allows the punters an extra look at the main event cars for the weekend.
Would certainly provide an opportunity for teams to iron out any last minute gremlins that seem to be quite common these days (you often see a car or two disappear down the pits after the green flag lap). But at tracks with tight curfews, (Oulton springs to mind) the schedule is already tight enough and in light of recent events at Donington it shows how little slack there is even at a place where they can race past 6pm!

Depends what people would rather see, an extra session of BTCC where they're not actually racing and there may only be half the cars on the track at any one time or a bunch of 15/16 year olds scattering bodywork round the place!

On a sort of related note, one thing that's always bugged me is the 'Lunch Break', I know itís probably of benefit to the marshals as much as anyone else, but aside from them, there's no one else really working continuously. You'd think it was a better idea if the marshals were to take their lunch in shifts and keep the racing going all day.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 10:49 (Ref:3728862)   #47
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Originally Posted by BLiTZ View Post
On a sort of related note, one thing that's always bugged me is the 'Lunch Break', I know itís probably of benefit to the marshals as much as anyone else, but aside from them, there's no one else really working continuously. You'd think it was a better idea if the marshals were to take their lunch in shifts and keep the racing going all day.
It's when the pitlane walkabout happens at more than one circuit, and that seems to be growing in importance for spectators. It also gives the folks in race control a break - stewards and clerks have to have time for cake

In terms of marshals and lunch breaks, I'll stop laughing shortly

Seriously: there may appear to be a lot of marshals at BTCC events (and there are usually way more than at club meetings), but that's precisely because (a) it's popular and (b) that number of bodies are sometimes needed to keep to timetable. There still wouldn't be enough to rota people off for lunch, especially in flag/post chief/specialist roles.

Still, good that there's usually a lunch break in the schedule from my perspective.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 14:31 (Ref:3728891)   #48
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BLiTZ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It's when the pitlane walkabout happens at more than one circuit, and that seems to be growing in importance for spectators. It also gives the folks in race control a break - stewards and clerks have to have time for cake

In terms of marshals and lunch breaks, I'll stop laughing shortly

Seriously: there may appear to be a lot of marshals at BTCC events (and there are usually way more than at club meetings), but that's precisely because (a) it's popular and (b) that number of bodies are sometimes needed to keep to timetable. There still wouldn't be enough to rota people off for lunch, especially in flag/post chief/specialist roles.

Still, good that there's usually a lunch break in the schedule from my perspective.
Fair do's, perhaps then, there should be something else put on for entertainment for those of us who can't face the hoards down the pit lane! I've since grown out of autograph hunting and would rather get a good look at the cars but you never get close enough, so we haven't bothered going in at the last few meetings.

Maybe they could drag out a few classic racers for some parade laps or something just to break the time up.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 14:45 (Ref:3728892)   #49
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Fair do's, perhaps then, there should be something else put on for entertainment for those of us who can't face the hoards down the pit lane! I've since grown out of autograph hunting and would rather get a good look at the cars but you never get close enough, so we haven't bothered going in at the last few meetings.

Maybe they could drag out a few classic racers for some parade laps or something just to break the time up.
They should do some fast passenger laps or something. Entry ticket ballot etc.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 15:13 (Ref:3728897)   #50
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thlbtcc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by BLiTZ View Post
Fair do's, perhaps then, there should be something else put on for entertainment for those of us who can't face the hoards down the pit lane! I've since grown out of autograph hunting and would rather get a good look at the cars but you never get close enough, so we haven't bothered going in at the last few meetings.

Maybe they could drag out a few classic racers for some parade laps or something just to break the time up.
I wander the Porsche/F4/Ginetta/Clio paddock, which can be (was at Donington for example) open for all to wander, see the teams working and chat to drivers.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 15:44 (Ref:3728903)   #51
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BLiTZ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I wander the Porsche/F4/Ginetta/Clio paddock, which can be (was at Donington for example) open for all to wander, see the teams working and chat to drivers.
Yeah, we usually do a once round early on before it gets too busy.

Was a real treat at Oulton in 2015 when they had the Super Tourers in the paddock. Considering you never got up close to them the first time round it was great to see them, bonnets up so you could really appreciate the engineering.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 17:19 (Ref:3728924)   #52
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crmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We've found the break during the day to be of benefit. Call it controversial, but we actually get some lunch ourselves during that period knowing we can sit and eat comfortably without missing any track action.

When you look around the crowds, there are usually quite a lot of spectators who are getting restless before the end of the day, so I think any additional track activity could saturate some.

With youngsters being the future of the sport, BTCC is doing a great job at the moment of giving races that don't seem to drag on too long, come in fairly quick succesion during the day and allow time to get to the track and home again without it being too long a day.

The problem with a start any earlier than 11am for the first BTCC action would cause problems both with TV scheduling and travelling to the track for the day spectators. BTCC knows it's market lies in the more casual observers alongside the dedicated minority - make them feel like they are missing out on something and they will look elsewhere for their entertainment.
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Old 24 Apr 2017, 17:39 (Ref:3728927)   #53
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
We don't need warm up, the fans see the tin tops three times on a Sunday, so it's not like they are getting less bang for their buck and also the tight scheduling precludes it
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Old Yesterday, 00:08 (Ref:3729015)   #54
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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We don't need warm up, the fans see the tin tops three times on a Sunday, so it's not like they are getting less bang for their buck and also the tight scheduling precludes it
See them three times, yes, however the same amount of laps as before with the two race format.

ST era Brands Indy...
Sprint race 25 laps
Feature race 50 laps

NGTC era Brands Indy...
3 X 24 laps races

So in actual fact, its 3 laps less. Make the teams all do 3 laps in the warm up and we will call it quits
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Old Yesterday, 07:30 (Ref:3729055)   #55
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crmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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See them three times, yes, however the same amount of laps as before with the two race format.

ST era Brands Indy...
Sprint race 25 laps
Feature race 50 laps

NGTC era Brands Indy...
3 X 24 laps races

So in actual fact, its 3 laps less. Make the teams all do 3 laps in the warm up and we will call it quits
They'll always squeeze three extra laps from Safety Cars at a Brands Indy meeting, so there's your balance...
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Old Yesterday, 08:13 (Ref:3729065)   #56
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BLiTZ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
We've found the break during the day to be of benefit. Call it controversial, but we actually get some lunch ourselves during that period knowing we can sit and eat comfortably without missing any track action.

When you look around the crowds, there are usually quite a lot of spectators who are getting restless before the end of the day, so I think any additional track activity could saturate some.

With youngsters being the future of the sport, BTCC is doing a great job at the moment of giving races that don't seem to drag on too long, come in fairly quick succesion during the day and allow time to get to the track and home again without it being too long a day.

The problem with a start any earlier than 11am for the first BTCC action would cause problems both with TV scheduling and travelling to the track for the day spectators. BTCC knows it's market lies in the more casual observers alongside the dedicated minority - make them feel like they are missing out on something and they will look elsewhere for their entertainment.
I know the TV deal has a lot to do with the format, but I think the restlessness comes from having to wait around until tea time for the last BTCC race. You forget that the casual fans only came to see Jason Potato in his Soobaroo race against Mat Kneel in his Type ARGH Yo! The fact that most people bugger off to find the nearest bar/food stall/bouncy castle during the support races tells you the majority of spectators aren't general motorsport fans. Even then, we were surprised by the amount of people that darted for the car park when the rain started and left before the third race even started!

The difficulty comes (as you say) in satisfying ITV, I.E. the first race needs to be around 11am allowing a program to start at 10am with an hour's build up and adverts. Then allowing 2-3 hours between for the benefit of teams for repairs etc means the day ends up stretched to 5-6pm.

I'd hate to have your day job if you think a day at the BTCC is a short day lol. Ok I know the accident knocked timings on their head a bit, but I was out of the house at 7 and didn't get back until gone 9 and we're only just south of York. Usually we'd be back closer to 7pm but even still that's a long day by my books. I feel even more sorry for the folks who travel the length of the country!

Overall, you're spot on with the race duration thing. I actually commented with my dad that we hadn't been to the British GT's in a few years (during the mid 2000 (read boring small fielded) years of BTCC, we started going to the more Endurance based meetings, BGT, ELMS, WSC, FIA GT etc) but then remembered that whilst the racing was interesting, you often ended up sat for an hour or two with little clue of who was in the lead and barely saw any action or overtaking (bar the massive pile up in the wet at Oulton in 2002) and that as an 'entertainment' package the BTCC couldn't be beat!

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the BTCC weekend format, the support packages are great (even the F4's and I don't really care for single seaters) and the only thing I'd love to see would be another form of multi-make championship, some kind of modern take on production saloons would be ace! I just think there are bits that could be changed to make the day feel a little less stretched out or broken up.
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Old Yesterday, 08:48 (Ref:3729079)   #57
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crmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I'd hate to have your day job if you think a day at the BTCC is a short day lol. Ok I know the accident knocked timings on their head a bit, but I was out of the house at 7 and didn't get back until gone 9 and we're only just south of York. Usually we'd be back closer to 7pm but even still that's a long day by my books. I feel even more sorry for the folks who travel the length of the country!
I feel the BTCC is already a long day, and adding a morning practice session (or anything before 11am) would make it even longer, possibly too long.

Out at 7am and back over 12hrs later could already be argued as being too long, particularly for driving safely with a family in the car. Not wanting to sound like H&S police, but in my job we have to keep a close eye on the hours people drive before and after their shifts. No-one wants to see people out before 6am, and still driving home 16+hrs later just because there were some BTCC cars on track at 0930 that they didn't want to miss - or at least I know I wouldn't want to be sharing the same road as that driver.

7-8hrs of on-track actions is roughly the same as a typical working day, so add on the commute and it is fairly typical to the amount of time many people are out of the house for work. To me, that feels about right and I wouldn't want to push it any further.

If ironing out issues needs to be done, perhaps a 30 minute session run after qualifying later on the Saturday would make more sense, allowing teams to see what has been stressed on the cars and put them into race trim.
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Old Yesterday, 16:03 (Ref:3729156)   #58
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thlbtcc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hope they found some qualifying pace.



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