Marshals Grading is a farce !

[Flagman]

Paul - couldn't agree more...

[Dave Brand]

From several posts in this thread there seems to be a lot of confusion or lack of knowledge among new marshals, & a lot of 'old' marshals, about the grading scheme.

Every new BMMC member is (or should be) given a copy of the 'Training & Grading Scheme' booklet, which explains how the scheme works & what is required to progress through the system. Anybody who hasn't got a copy of this can download it from the BMMC website.

To anyone who is still confused after reading the booklet I would say don't just sit there bewildered, talk to your local grading officer - contact details will be in your regional newsletter.

The scheme ain't really very complicated - you get a card, you attend training sessions, you go out on the bank, you get signatures, you post your card off, you get a new grade.

Trouble, I find your experience rather disconcerting. It can take some time for an upgrade to come through because of the consultation process involved, but, from personal experience, six to eight weeks is typical. As for the badge, you should have sent your white badge in with your upgrade badge; the green badge will then be sent with your new upgrade card.

[Dave Brand]

Good post, Paul.....it's a pity you resisted temptation for so long - your post says all that needs to be said!

[paul.hickman]

Dave, whilst I understand the BMMC grading scheme (should do after all this time!) try and explain to me then what is the the role that has been assumed by the MSA in relation to licensing and grading....

This is not personal - I am constantly looking for someone who knows the answers....

For my money, the MSA took the high ground as the senior body in the UK (and to the detriment of the BMMC) and should accept that with that right comes a responsibility...

[paul.hickman]

Thanks for your kind comments guys!

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by paul.hickman
try and explain to me then what is the the role that has been assumed by the MSA in relation to licensing and grading....

Pass!

[paul.hickman]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
Pass!

Thanks Dave! I thought I'd finally found someone with answers..

... back to the quest ... :confused:

[Stoowert]

Paul, I've only been observing for about 2 years but it's been a very steep learning curve (I hate that expression!) One thing I've found out is the quite dreadful standard of man-management in the observer corps! You are absolutely right in the way you set out to interact with your fellow orange funsters, but, and this is a big but, some, dare I say most observers have the man-management skills of a sick haddock! The "Do as I say, not as I do" culture still exists, as does the "I've been doing this job for X years, I don't need to be told by the likes of you". I did a BARC meeting before my upgrade. I was allowcated post 2. The observer insisted I show the blue flag to EVERY car coming out of the pits. This I refused to do: firstly, because that is not what the blue means. Secondly, the drivers cant see the thing from post 2! The observer justified his action by saying he observes post 2 for all meetings - except BRSCC! Guess what, I flagged every BRSCC meeting for 2 years prior to that. It was partly that incident that convinced me to upgrade! Change cannot be for change's sake, but our sport has moved on from the 1970's, so must the MSA.
Did you see Channel 4 last night re James Hunt?

[Trouble]

Dave,
Thanks for your reply.
With regard to talking to the local grading officer - that's easier said than done! I don't want to victimise anyone, but the count of different officials who haven't replied to my letters / phonecalls/ emails is now 5!!! I appreciate that BMMC officials are volunatary and everyone has other commitments and maybe having a bad day, but that's quite enough to put someone off isn't it!!

[Trouble]

Hey- and another thought.
I only needed someone to tell me to send my badge back and I would have done
I only needed a bit of help!

[Stuart Hill]

Only 5 Trouble??? you are obviously not in the Midland or Northern regions!!!!!

[Baldy Man]

Trouble is exactly the sort of guy who inspired me to start this thread !

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Trouble
I appreciate that BMMC officials are volunatary and everyone has other commitments and maybe having a bad day, but that's quite enough to put someone off isn't it!!

Voluntary or not, requests for help or information shouldn't be ignored. I've never had any problems - maybe I've just been lucky.....

Hey- and another thought.
I only needed someone to tell me to send my badge back and I would have done
I only needed a bit of help!

Hmmm.....have you got the 'Training & Grading Scheme' booklet? See page 5: 'Completed Cards'. Sometimes you've got to help yourself!

[serverbrainfailure]

Originally posted by Dave Brand

Hmmm.....have you got the 'Training & Grading Scheme' booklet? See page 5: 'Completed Cards'. Sometimes you've got to help yourself!

I've never seen one of those - and i've been doing this for nearly 6 years...

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by serverbrainfailure
I've never seen one of those - and i've been doing this for nearly 6 years...

We were given a copy at our first training day. It can be downloaded from the BMMC website:

www.marshals.co.uk/

in .PDF format - just click on 'Grading Manual' under downloads. It's only 209kb.

You can also download the 'Guide to Marshalling', the little booklet published by the MSF which, if I remember correctly, we were sent when we joined BMMC.

[paul.hickman]

Stuart, thanks for your view – almost by definition these days I am the only observer on post (or when there is more than one, I have the lead role) so I am not aware of the people management skills of others – although I may have my suspicions…

Without sounding patronising I am pleased that you made the move across from flagging as, knowing you as I do, you will have brought your own inimitable character to developing your ever changing team. However, I guess we all miss the great arm-waving flourish of the flag just before you put it to one side (together with the chuckle)!

Now on a serious note, in previous posts I have advocated not only grading but also re-grading. Just because we are volunteers it doesn’t mean that we don’t have standards to maintain. Some years ago I undertook a ‘quality of review’ of several hundred observers’ reports and graded them according to their ability to impart the story surrounding an incident in a factual and non-subjective way. The results (you will not be surprised) were interesting (to put it politely) … Perhaps what we need now is a practical assessment of post management and incident handling. Running alongside of that perhaps should be an assessment of the flaggie chappies as I am generally less than impressed with the standard of ‘blue use’ and whilst I do monitor flag use (and on the odd occasion let the waver have the benefit of my wisdom …) my focus is mainly on the antics on (and off) the black stuff.

As for the Hunt programme – well I phoned John ‘Neubauer’ Williams to thank him for his present of the Bugbear virus that thankfully Symantec intercepted on its way into my machine and, no surprises here, he was watching it (in between glasses of wine and a short sleep or two) – so I managed to catch the second half! Memories, not only of the man but the cars – formula 1 cars doing what formula 1 cars should do – drift around corners and overtake!!! I did feel though that Petersen’s accident and Hunt’s later life was given far too much prominence.

Enjoy the FFF this weekend!

[Stephen Green]

I'm sitting here wiping tears from my eyes after reading the part about John Williams. Let's hope said man didn't read the post!

[paul.hickman]

He won't - 'cos he don't get on with this new fangled technology! AND I'll tell him before any of you guys do!!!

[KayBee]

Baldy Man have you ever considered bike marshalling? There is a two day meeting on at Anglesey this weekend, 19/20 October, and if you are free why not come over and give it a try.

You will be able to marshal without the hassle of handing in your grading card - indeed bikes don't use such a scheme - and have the opportunity to try your hand at both incident and flag marshalling in the same day.

You will also have the opportunity to meet the other half of the Oulton Park marshalling fraternity because like the cars Oulton and Anglesey are run more or less in tandem.

[Baldy Man]

Yes have considered, but prefer to marshal cars. I'll stick to watchin bikes ! anyways gonna pickle myself tonight so probably not up to anythin !!

[KayBee]

Originally posted by Baldy Man
Yes have considered, but prefer to marshal cars. I'll stick to watchin bikes ! anyways gonna pickle myself tonight so probably not up to anythin !!

Shame! Still it is a two day meeting - with racing on both days - so you could always have a run out on Sunday. Otherwise I'll look forward to seeing you at the Training Days next February and hopefully continiung this dicussion face-to-face.

[Brushpusher]

Originally posted by KayBee
You will be able to marshal without the hassle of handing in your grading card - indeed bikes don't use such a scheme - and have the opportunity to try your hand at both incident and flag marshalling in the same day.

Kaybee, I have an ACU training record card, I thought that there was a grading scheme, is that not the case?

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Brushpusher
Kaybee, I have an ACU training record card, I thought that there was a grading scheme, is that not the case?

I think what she meant was that there is no system of requiring signatures to obtain a specific grade; that's certainly the case with the Cheshire Motorcycle Marshals Association - the club applies for licences & specifies the grades. As far as I know, all clubs do the same. We did get signatures on our cards last year, but nobody seemed intersted in them, so it was all a bit pointless.

Last year I had two ACU licences, with two different grades - the CMCMA one had me down as a trainee, while to Bemsee I was an incident marshal! Try getting the ACU to sort out a problem like that!

[Stuart Hill]

Boy is this going to stir things up!!!!!!!

YES, Marshalling is a hobby but..............

ANYONE who views it as a way to escape their daily routine is in the wrong place!!

Yes, we love the crack and hope to have fun doing it but........

WE ARE NOT THERE FOR FUN!!!!!!!!!!

WE ARE THERE FOR SAFETY!!!!!!!!

The fact that we may enjoy it is beside the point, the ONLY reason "marshals" exist is for Safety!!

Anyone, in my opinion, who turns up to "watch-the-racing" is the wrong side of the fence. I take my "hobby" very seriously and object to anyone who does not. I get just as drunk after the meets, having a crack around a barbie or campfire but, come race time..........

I am a Professional and try to act as such. I attend training days not for grading but to make sure that I am aware of anything new to the seqason. Also to refresh my techniques.

If anyone reading this views "Marshalling" as a good way to get close without paying, they'd better hope they never get assigned the same post as me (or worse, below me on a hill!!), as I will make my feelings very clear!!!!

I AM A PROFESSIONAL THAT DOES NOT GET PAID!!!!!

If that is not you, then go spectate. Let us "unpaid professionals" take care of the meeting.

[serverbrainfailure]

I do it as a "proffessional hobby" with the specific intention of doing something different to my daily routine - I think we all do - otherwise all marshalls would be off-duty traffic cops and firemen!

however I do agree that we are a professional team dedicated to safety, so why are we treated so badly?