Virgin - The discussion thread - Page 2

Super Hans · 16 Apr 2011, 12:27 (Ref:2864246)

We'd expect Glock to praise the team if the car was good, wouldn't we? Well, it works both ways.

**chunterer** · 16 Apr 2011, 12:27 (Ref:2864247)

Totally right, the guy is potentially a front runner and he's doing worse than he did last year because the team has gone backwards.

It's ruining his career - he surely would've expected improvements this season.

Presumably he's free end of this season then he might stand a chance of getting a decent ride again.

I don't think Jerome out-qualifying him a couple of times will make much difference to his stock, as the german is the lynchpin of the team at the mo.

gwyllion · 16 Apr 2011, 13:30 (Ref:2864283)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

To be fair to Glock, the car is a complete turd!

Glock disagrees with you

Quote:

"The basic concept of it is not that bad. It is driveable, it is not out of balance, there just isn't enough grip. It's quite easy – it's the downforce we don't have."

spider · 16 Apr 2011, 15:14 (Ref:2864308)

It's painful just how poor that Virgin is. Having said that, all the signs in the winter pointed to a sh1t box of a car. Same poor design team, Cosworth engine, smaller budget than most, CFD only design, with inexperience throughout.

Lotus, I expect, will be up with the midfield by seasons-end, Hispania will probably leap-frog Virgin despite being embarrassing in their build-up to the season too.

Glock is a very capable driver, so he's got to hope he's got a hell of a Manager to go around knocking down doors to get out of this farce of a team for 2012.

I want to see them push-on I really do, but you just know that the Istanbul package will make no difference, irritatingly...

Super Hans · 16 Apr 2011, 15:17 (Ref:2864309)

Quote:

Originally Posted by spider

inexperience throughout.

Well they are called Virgin.

gwyllion · 16 Apr 2011, 15:38 (Ref:2864319)

Quote:

Originally Posted by spider

I want to see them push-on I really do, but you just know that the Istanbul package will make no difference, irritatingly...

They estimate that the Istanbul update is worth 2 sec.

newlaprecord · 16 Apr 2011, 17:02 (Ref:2864352)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Totally right, the guy is potentially a front runner

Really? Heidfeld outqualified him 4 to zero. Trulli did 25 to 7. He did have some decent races in a 400million dollar Toyota but even those years must have been pretty cold for him in the shadow of Trulli.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

and he's doing worse than he did last year because the team has gone backwards.

Last time I've checked he was actually a part of the TEAM. Virgin coulda gone for two pay-drivers, instead they are giving Glock the team-leader status and a salary. He must share some of the responsibilty I would think. Your team is going backwards? Thats not doing a great job as a lead driver. The only thing he could possibly prove by going to Virgin is that he can make something out of nothing. Thats precisely what he can not do it appears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

It's ruining his career

It's not like he had a lot of options for 2010. Viring pretty much SAVED his career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Presumably he's free end of this season then he might stand a chance of getting a decent ride again.

I dont recall his name coming up with a half-decent ride lately but lets wait and see I guess

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't think Jerome out-qualifying him a couple of times will make much difference to his stock.

A couple of times probably wont. A little few than a couple of times might very well do.

**chunterer** · 16 Apr 2011, 20:03 (Ref:2864423)

newlaprecord, cracking attempt at an argument for the team there. full praise.

I think that Glock had truly put Trulli in the sahde by the end of 2009 and was often the more competitve Toyota driver, indeed a couple of his drives that season were fantastic which suggested there might even be a potentiao for a win at last but sadly they pulled the plug, and tbh it was the right thing to do for all the resources that had been squandered.

Timo was the first proper racer 'on the way' that the team had employed and it showed.

You complain about Glock moaning about his equipment, but then haven't a great many drivers done that in the past, such as Hamilton, Alonso, Senna, Prost etc etc? and

Usually it actually spurs things into action rather than makes things worse.

Obiously it would help Glock if he was saying such things in a more established team but the guy knows he is better than his current lot and would be very very keen to prove it. He wants the team to do better because he will do better!!

Also I think you may also find that Renault and Williams were looking at him last year, but he was under contract for this year and crucially for such teams doesn't have any money to bring!

The end of this season may be different for him, we'll see.

cds_uk · 21 Apr 2011, 18:09 (Ref:2867672)

Having thought about this for a while now how long do the team persevere with Nick Wirth, if the updates dont bring a big improvement what then? I am assuming even if the updates do work at best they will close up a bit to the back of the grid, so that will be two seasons trailing around near the back, do they stick with him for a third season, more of the same, a fourth season? Would they ever consider parting company with Wirth and getting someone like Dallara to build a car so they could at least get it in a wind tunnel or would they just pack up and be done with it all, experiment failed.

**chunterer** · 21 Apr 2011, 18:12 (Ref:2867674)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Would they ever consider parting company with Wirth and getting someone like Dallara to build a car so they could at least get it in a wind tunnel or would they just pack up and be done with it all, experiment failed.

I noticed recently that former Jag chassis designer Ben Agathangelou is now at Dallara so maybe that wouldn't be a bad choice!

Tourer · 21 Apr 2011, 21:49 (Ref:2867812)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Having thought about this for a while now how long do the team persevere with Nick Wirth, if the updates dont bring a big improvement what then? I am assuming even if the updates do work at best they will close up a bit to the back of the grid, so that will be two seasons trailing around near the back, do they stick with him for a third season, more of the same, a fourth season? Would they ever consider parting company with Wirth and getting someone like Dallara to build a car so they could at least get it in a wind tunnel or would they just pack up and be done with it all, experiment failed.

Seems to me that they are in many ways locked in to the approach that they are taking by budget. It was part of their overall plan on how they went racing that they'd run with the lower budget that the FIA was promising at the time Virgin came in.

Part of that lower budget was to design and update the car using CFD and simulation rather than wind tunnel work - I guess that this also equates to less staff.

If the team reaches a point that they can't see a way to move forward on the grid with the current design approach (whether or not Nick Wirth stays involved) then it is gong to be a BIG structural and budget change for them to go to a more "conventional" operation with wind tunnel, model makers, more staff and all that.

Given that most teams go with a 9 month of so gestation on new cars, if Virgin decided to go this way they'd be really needing to make the call around now - if they leave it till later in the season it will be too late to impact much in 2012.

For them, it would be much harder to make significant design department structural changes than most teams as their methodology is so very, very different.

Marbot · 22 Apr 2011, 10:44 (Ref:2868051)

Virgin ask Pat Symonds, who is already a consultant to the team, to undertake a full review of teams technical performance. Wind tunnel testing may also be considered!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90915

cds_uk · 22 Apr 2011, 15:44 (Ref:2868186)

Glad to see Booth is at least considering wind tunnel testing, also interesting to see that he said the upgrades for Turkey are almost significant enough to warrant giving the car a B-spec designation. http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ar-for-turkey/

Marbot · 25 Apr 2011, 09:08 (Ref:2869414)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Glad to see Booth is at least considering wind tunnel testing,

Headlines: "Virgin anticipating blow job".

duke_toaster · 25 Apr 2011, 09:10 (Ref:2869418)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I noticed recently that former Jag chassis designer Ben Agathangelou is now at Dallara so maybe that wouldn't be a bad choice!

Would Dallara want to get in to F1 after possibly getting their fingers burnt over HRT?

**chunterer** · 25 Apr 2011, 09:22 (Ref:2869423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Would Dallara want to get in to F1 after possibly getting their fingers burnt over HRT?

Don't know, I would imagine they might not be as concerned with working with the people at Virgin than they ended up with in the previous HRT regime?

Marbot · 25 Apr 2011, 09:36 (Ref:2869432)

There is currently quite a bit of spare capacity to be used at wind tunnels in the UK. Many teams have had to shut down a wind tunnel or vastly reduce its running of a wind tunnel under the current resource restriction agreement.

**Bononi** · 25 Apr 2011, 12:01 (Ref:2869496)

Not a very exciting perspective for them...

cds_uk · 4 May 2011, 19:53 (Ref:2874203)

As Glock is the only one with the full upgrade this weekend what sort of gap should we be looking for to D'Ambrosio, i appreciate that they have to sort out all the new stuff and how it works but surely they will want Glock to be the best part of 1 second up the road, if he's not and HRT are ahead of them, disaster.

gwyllion · 4 May 2011, 22:42 (Ref:2874284)

They did the same last year. Glock got the car with the bigger fuel tank before Di Grassi.

**Born Racer** · 7 May 2011, 11:49 (Ref:2875815)

Well done Jérôme; the better driver today.

Hawkwood · 7 May 2011, 16:09 (Ref:2876191)

And Glock had the new upgrade package?
Doesn't exactly bode well...

gwyllion · 8 May 2011, 14:25 (Ref:2876822)

Glock had the full upgrade package on his car on Friday, but they had to remove the new exhausts and floor on Saturday because of heat issues. So D'Ambrosio and Glock qualified with same configuration.

Quote:

As a result of problems managing the heat from the newly-routed exhausts, Timo's car had been reconfigured overnight, and was running in the same specification as Jérôme's, using the Shanghai specification, updated with a new front nosecone and wing, mirrors and brakes.

source: http://virginracing.com/news/343/

In the race it was clear that the new parts have helped Virgin stay ahead of HRT. D'Ambrosio started at the back of the grid because of his "ignoring yellow flag" penalty but he finished clear ahead of the HRT.

However, the gap to Lotus is still very big and Lotus will have some updates (including Red Bull style exhausts) in Barcelona.

Amaroo Park · 9 May 2011, 06:57 (Ref:2877219)

If maybe Virgin worked hard at getting some new sponsors and there fore money into the team and then invested that into development they might be on the right track. However while Branson pays them $2.00 a race to be title sponsor they aint goin no where

spider · 9 May 2011, 09:17 (Ref:2877285)

Hmm, it's hardly making Nick Wirth's lot look brilliant all this is it.

Thing is, realistically, there's just no sign of them moving-forward in the near future. It's poor to be consistently miles off the pace. HRT should be, with the lack of running in winter, miles behind, so Liuzzi out-doing Glock is just unacceptable.

Be interesting to see how Symonds' consultancy gets involved with the team longer-term...

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