The Future of V8SC

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Group A ended in 1992, 1993 was run under CAMS Group 3A and allowed some 2 litre cars in 1993/1994 only, but they were not Group A cars.

1995 onwards V8s exclusively.

Not according to quotes from Bill Woods and Tony Cochrane in 1996 here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJbHHM6iNE

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Not according to quotes from Bill Woods and Tony Cochrane in 1996 here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJbHHM6iNE

shakes head, that is just desperate

[chavez]

To be more pedantic Australia ran a modified version of Group A from at least 1990.

Minimum weights were firstly fiddled with followed by engine restrictions, more generous gearbox freedoms, and even softening of vehicle homologation rules.

This reach it's zenith at the 1992 AGP meeting which saw a huge variety of cars run to many different sets of rules.

Aussie Group A eg DJR Sierra

Group 3A eg HRT Commodores

A modified DTM spec eg B&H BMW's

A set of rules found only in Neal Lowe's dreams eg DJR Falcon

A set of rules found only in Frank Gardner's dreams eg ex Vic Lee BTCC 2.0 BMW with 2.5 litre DTM spec motor

Truely a nightmare for some, but fantastic variety for others.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Not according to quotes from Bill Woods and Tony Cochrane in 1996 here;

Doesn't matter what you dragged up.

Group A ended worldwide in 1994.

Some Group A cars ran without turbos as part of Super Touring, and in all likelihood this is what TC and Billy Woods must have been referring to - because Group A was dead and buried by then.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Doesn't matter what you dragged up

Exactly evidence doesn't count for anything

[Umai Naa]

Group 3a Touring Cars were still being referred to as just "Group A", for quite a while after 1990, '92, '94, or whichever year suits your arguement. Consider it as a colloquialism.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Group 3a Touring Cars were still being referred to as just "Group A", for quite a while after 1990, '92, '94, or whichever year suits your arguement. Consider it as a colloquialism.

Yeah, exactly - claiming colloquialism based on off the cuff comments as "evidence" is just sniping. It's no different to calling the V8 Supercar Championship Series "then Main Game" or calling the current cars "V8s" rather than V8 Supercars and claiming in future years that is "proof" of when a name changed.

Besides all that, seems to me that Group A and its derivates were in the past and this thread is meant to be about the future.

[Tourer]

So back on topic, V8SC has been a long-running category, I think the longest running of all the different categories that have raced for the ATCC. Clearly whilst by no means perfect, they've got it right more often than not.

There is a huge challenge for them right now though. With the two primary makes in the series shutting down in Oz this year and next year, there are decisions that need to be made on what runs and on what is under the skin.

For mine, they're already a control chassis structure with variations in body and engine and it probably makes sense to maintain that. I'm not convinced about allowing other engine configurations in but ultimately it may be what needs to happen. It's not just about power, it's about weight distribution, centre of gravity etc. If the series is strong, it can probably stick with V8s but the problem is that some decisions have weakened the series somewhat and there is much work to be done if they want to be back where they were in terms of popularity.

I think that one of the things that needs to happen is to free up the racing rules to allow some more rubbing - if the cars are built with that in mind, there should be minimal cost to teams and the entertainment is improved.

The question of offering parity across different engine configurations will be the hard thing to draft rules on plus police, no doubt about it but other categories of racing have done it with greater or lesser success - to me it is only something that should be done if potential new manufacturers see it as a critical item for them to come on board.

Sort that out and allow a little more rubbing and to me the series should be good to go.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Tourer

So back on topic, V8SC has been a long-running category, I think the longest running of all the different categories that have raced for the ATCC.

Despite the running under the same name since 1997 there have been three very distinct sets of technical regulations. We are only a couple of years into the most recent change.

[Umai Naa]

Those rule sets have all evolved from one another.

Group 3a was an evolution of the Group A rules the Commodore was homologated to, followed by Project Blueprint, and now COTF.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by chavez

Despite the running under the same name since 1997 there have been three very distinct sets of technical regulations. We are only a couple of years into the most recent change.

Some truth in that but like Umai says, they've been an evolution - same as there was evolution in production rules, evolution in improved production rules, evolution in group c, evolution in group A.

They've all evolved over their lifetimes as categories but of them all, I think that V8SC has been the longest-lasting.