End of the Falcon (Again!!)

[johnh875]

Falcon is effectively the same size as a Ponti G8 - its direct competitor in our market. Note that the Mondeo also has about the same cabin room in most dimensions. It would be interesting to see how this compares to the Taurus. I did see something about the Taurus having less rear legroom than a Fusion - would that be right?

Matt - nothing like 'web chat as news'... I suppose since much of the press has slashed staff numbers they have to get the info from somewhere.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Falcon is effectively the same size as a Ponti G8 - its direct competitor in our market. Note that the Mondeo also has about the same cabin room in most dimensions. It would be interesting to see how this compares to the Taurus. I did see something about the Taurus having less rear legroom than a Fusion - would that be right?

Matt - nothing like 'web chat as news'... I suppose since much of the press has slashed staff numbers they have to get the info from somewhere.

That's why I was wondering... I didn't realize the Mondeo was sold in Australia until I visited Ford's website. The Fusion is roughly the same size as the Mondeo. The Taurus is a much larger car, hence the difference in weight. So, effectively the Mondeo would be replacing the Falcon.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Not really, the Fairline/LTD were the long wheelbase, so the Statesman would be a longer car than the Falcon, I would suggest.

LTD name still around huh? If any '80s American LTDs were imported, I would like to apologize on behalf of Ford.

That being said, things have come a long way in a short amount of time over here. I'd put the new Ford and Chevy sedans against anything.

[johnh875]

No the LTD was dropped with the Fairlane, the last year or two it would have been lucky to sell >100p.a. It started in '73 as a longer version of the lwb Fairlane, there was Falcon at 111", Fairlane 116" and LTD 121". From 1979 it was effectively a higher trim level with different cosmetics, the difference reduced over time.

I'll have to look into the Fusion and Taurus size, however the Mondeo is very large for a 'medium' sized car. How does a Taurus compare in size to the Pontiac G8? At first glance the Taurus is bigger externally but smaller internally than the Falcon.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by johnh875

No the LTD was dropped with the Fairlane, the last year or two it would have been lucky to sell >100p.a. It started in '73 as a longer version of the lwb Fairlane, there was Falcon at 111", Fairlane 116" and LTD 121". From 1979 it was effectively a higher trim level with different cosmetics, the difference reduced over time.

I'll have to look into the Fusion and Taurus size, however the Mondeo is very large for a 'medium' sized car. How does a Taurus compare in size to the Pontiac G8? At first glance the Taurus is bigger externally but smaller internally than the Falcon.

Ford has said the Fusion(Mazda 6) is going to be merged with the Mondeo for one global platform. Yet again.

Haven't seen the new Taurus in person but current one is smaller than the G8.

There are Falcon based test hacks running around the USA I heard. Apparently the RWD sedan could end up under the Lincoln banner instead here in the USA. Ford is planning on pumping up Lincoln to get that more competitive.

The Crown Vic is going out of production within the next few months and just about anytime now Ford was going to announce it's replacement, so we will see.

I think was is clear is the FG and it's descendants are probably going to be around until 2014 or so, so a lot can happen in that time.

GM has made some noise they are now going to reconsider a Chevy Commodore and a Ute. The ute they see as potential to bring their fuel mileage figures up and the Commodore would be a limited numbers RWD performance sedan. Makes sense as the car is back over here now as the PPV.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

GM has made some noise they are now going to reconsider a Chevy Commodore and a Ute. The ute they see as potential to bring their fuel mileage figures up and the Commodore would be a limited numbers RWD performance sedan. Makes sense as the car is back over here now as the PPV.

True, especially so given the compliance money is all spent.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by johnh875

No the LTD was dropped with the Fairlane, the last year or two it would have been lucky to sell >100p.a. It started in '73 as a longer version of the lwb Fairlane, there was Falcon at 111", Fairlane 116" and LTD 121". From 1979 it was effectively a higher trim level with different cosmetics, the difference reduced over time.

I'll have to look into the Fusion and Taurus size, however the Mondeo is very large for a 'medium' sized car. How does a Taurus compare in size to the Pontiac G8? At first glance the Taurus is bigger externally but smaller internally than the Falcon.

Essentially the Fusion is the mid-size car and the Taurus is the full size car. Externally the Taurus is larger than the G8, however internally the G8 is larger and has a longer wheelbase. We're talking the matter of an inch here and there though.

Just looking at a Taurus it seems bigger though. It looks like a full size car. The G8 has always appeared to be mid-size to me, but I guess it's not. Having never seen a Falcon or Mondeo in person, I don't know how they fit in.

Either way it seems a shame to get rid of one of Australia's great cars. If they got rid of the Mustang here there would be rioting in the street.

[johnh875]

mountainstar - there is a bit of a trap there! I believe the US model Mazda6 is different from the rest of the world's (most of it at least), eg they don't have a V6.

I will have to post up some figures later on dimensions (to make them readable), then there is the question of whether measurement techniques are the same. Eg I have seen in US tests 0-60 figures quoted with and without rollout in the same test. That makes sense to me, but they don't say if the 1/4 mile times include rollout or not!

Yep Falcon (won't be FG model by then) will still be here in 2015 (calendar year not model year!) and I understand the decision on the next generation could be up to 12-18 months away. However it is dependent on the decision on the next generation Mustang, which might be closer than that?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by johnh875

mountainstar - there is a bit of a trap there! I believe the US model Mazda6 is different from the rest of the world's (most of it at least), eg they don't have a V6.

I will have to post up some figures later on dimensions (to make them readable), then there is the question of whether measurement techniques are the same. Eg I have seen in US tests 0-60 figures quoted with and without rollout in the same test. That makes sense to me, but they don't say if the 1/4 mile times include rollout or not!

Yep Falcon (won't be FG model by then) will still be here in 2015 (calendar year not model year!) and I understand the decision on the next generation could be up to 12-18 months away. However it is dependent on the decision on the next generation Mustang, which might be closer than that?

From what I have been able to put together it sounds like Ford is going to give a big push to develop the Lincoln brand and with that will be RWD sedan, so I guess it is possible the next Falcon could or would share that. We'll see. I am naturally biased towards RWD or AWD drive cars and just don't like FWD.

[johnh875]

Ok here is what I have come up with:

Exterior (mm)	Falcon	Taurus	Mondeo	Fusion
Overall length	4970	5154	4844	4841
Overall width	1868	1935	1886	1834
Overall height	1433	1542	1500	1445
Wheelbase	2838	2868	2850	2728
Front track	1583	1659	1579	1567
Rear track	1598	1664	1595	1557

Exterior (")	Falcon	Taurus	Mondeo	Fusion
Overall length	195.7	202.9	188.1	190.6
Overall width	73.5	76.2	74.3	72.2
Overall height	56.4	60.7	59.1	56.3
Wheelbase	111.7	112.3	112.2	107.4
Front track	62.3	65.3	62.2	61.7
Rear track	62.9	65.5	62.8	61.3

Interior (mm)	Falcon	Taurus	Mondeo	Fusion
Front headroom	1012	991	996	983
Front legroom	1073	1064	1126	1074
Front shldr rm	1523	1471	1448	1458
Front hip room	1486	1430		1372
Rear headroom	989	960	976	960
Rear legroom	989	968	950	942
Rear shldr room	1518	1445	1421	1435
Rear hip room		1417		1354
				
Boot/trunk (L)	535	570	567	581
Fuel tank (L)	68	72	70	66

Interior (")	Falcon	Taurus	Mondeo	Fusion
Front headroom	39.8	39	39.2	38.7
Front legroom	42.2	41.3	44.3	42.3
Front shldr rm	60.0	57.9	57.0	57.4
Front hip room	58.5	56.3	0.0	54.0
Rear headroom	38.9	37.8	38.0	37.8
Rear legroom	38.9	38.1	37.4	37.1
Rear shldr room	59.8	56.9	55.9	56.5
Rear hip room		55.8		53.3
				
Trunk (cu.ft)	18.9	20.1	18.9	16.5
Fuel (US gal)	18.0	19.0	18.5	17.5

[Amaroo Park]

I think the days of vehicles being manufactured here are coming to a close and sadly it is a huge part of our history we will never be able to get back. Perhaps if the government would either increase or at least hold the current tarrif proctetion then maybe it can hang on for a while longer.

The Australian Federal Government would seem to have little interest in the Manufacturing Industry unless it is to Manufacture things for the Global Warming Cottage Industry..

[cavvy]

FPV Falcon spotted in the USA (March 2010)

Is this test mule hiding the secrets of the GT-HO?

According to a report on SEMA.org this FPV Falcon prototype has been spotted in Michigan undergoing testing by Ford USA engineers. But the really interesting news is that the photographer was confident he spied an intercooler mounted in the lower grille opening.

The mule in the images appears to be based on an FPV GT-E with the Falcon V8's trademark bonnet bulge and twin tailpipes at the rear, as well as FPV bumpers and side skirts.

These images emerge the same day the Carsales Network encountered a Falcon ute sporting what appeared to be an intercooler at the Anglesea proving grounds south west of Melbourne.

Although FPV didn't want to comment when contacted by the Carsales Network it appears all but confirmed that FPV will be offering a forced-induction version of the new 5.0-litre 'Coyote' V8 when the current 5.4 Boss unit is phased out later this year.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2010...-the-usa-18579

[johnh875]

Just thought I would do a post to mark (belatedly) the 50th anniversary of the Falcon which occurred yesterday. Not too many models have had a longer continuous history than that.

[I Rosputnik]

I was going to make a thread for this, but now that I've noticed this thread, I'll explain it here.

A compromise to keep both names.

Create two new cars, a large RWD 5 door sedan. Call it the Taurus, while you could have a Grand Tourer and give it the Falcon name. Let the Australians design the chassis, and the drive systems that will underpin both cars. Then let the Americans design and build body of the Taurus, while the Australians design and build the Falcon.

Or you could swap it around and have the Falcon as the sedan, and the Tarurus as the GT. But you would be able to sell both cars to a global market, while keeping the names.

[inpitlane]

Expect something at the Australian International Motorshow in Sydney later this year. Whether it's called the GTHO or not isn't known. Ford seem very reluctant to use the moniker as anything they build will have to be bloody good to not cop a barrage of criticism for "soiling" the iconic brand name.

[I Rosputnik]

There's a GTHO?

[johnh875]

GTHO was the 'homologation' version of the Falcon GT for racing 40 years ago.

The new FPV GT will be getting a supercharged version of the new Mustang 5.0 V8, at about 450hp (which should be an understatement), there is speculation of a GTHO version with the wick turned up in a similar vein to the HSV W427, although not at the same price (~75,000 pound). Personally I doubt it will happen at this time as I can't see there being a business case to build it (GTHO) at a realistic price.

[Chris - Melb]

Probably not the end of the Falcon after all ...

Ford throws Falcon a RWD lifeline: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...001-15zpi.html

[Mixer]

In the same breath though they are saying they want Ford to make more than 20 models worldwide, so where does the Falcon fit here?

[Chris - Melb]

Originally Posted by Mixer

In the same breath though they are saying they want Ford to make more than 20 models worldwide, so where does the Falcon fit here?

Well the quote was "There will be less than 30, on our way to 20 to 25". I'm sure a combined Mustang/Falcon platform could fit in there somewhere.

If the US police did not take well to the front-wheel-drive version of the Taurus police car, then maybe a rearwheel drive 'Falcon' could be a good backup plan.

Or could they be planning to engineer a rearwheel drive version of the Taurus? Surely if its already all-wheel-drive capable, rearwheel drive would not be that difficult? A nice little project for Australian engineers?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Chris - Melb

Or could they be planning to engineer a rearwheel drive version of the Taurus? Surely if its already all-wheel-drive capable, rearwheel drive would not be that difficult? A nice little project for Australian engineers?

All wheel drive and rear wheel drive are pretty different in fact, rwd would most often be transverse engine, where rwd is mainly longditudinal, so its like building a whole new car really.

[Chris - Melb]

Originally Posted by Mixer

All wheel drive and rear wheel drive are pretty different in fact, rwd would most often be transverse engine, where rwd is mainly longditudinal, so its like building a whole new car really.

Good point Mixer, I never thought of that. Certainly no room for the superb Falcon straight six, in either direction!

[johnh875]

It all depends on what they do with the GRWD platform. One thing that can be guaranteed is short of hell freezing over they will keep a rwd Mustang, and if the 'One Ford' thing is not to be a complete joke it will be international - and why wouldn't you want to leverage more variants of your rwd platform? If they can come up with a flexible rwd platform, ie vary wheelbase & track width a bit they could have something – Mustang, Falcon, a top of the line rwd Lincoln, etc.

Going global means using the 3.5/3.7L V6 however, a shame as the 4.0 I6 is a great engine with only the cast iron block & packaging going against it.

[Mixer]

The biggest problem for the Falcon as I see it is that the Yanks can't seem to justify an independant rear end for the Mustang, so if we're gonna share that platform there's going to be compromises...

[I Rosputnik]

I have to admit, if we start getting Falcons in the UK, I'd like them to be RWD Aussie Falcons, not FWD Falcons.