Carrera Cup 2012

[Silver 3]

Craig Baird is top class by any standard-- and he has measured himself overseas in numerous classes and venues.
Good V8 drivers are very good-- no question about that.It is another thing to put the helmet under the arm and make your way out of your comfort zone.
I absoloutely love what Marcos Ambrose has done-- but you need to remember that he did some very hard yard overseas and had great experience of a variety of cars before becoming a great V8 Champion.
Making a comment that someone is good-- does not necessarily follow that you are saying others are bad!!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Craig Baird is top class by any standard-- and he has measured himself overseas in numerous classes and venues.
Good V8 drivers are very good-- no question about that.It is another thing to put the helmet under the arm and make your way out of your comfort zone.
I absoloutely love what Marcos Ambrose has done-- but you need to remember that he did some very hard yard overseas and had great experience of a variety of cars before becoming a great V8 Champion.
Making a comment that someone is good-- does not necessarily follow that you are saying others are bad!!

Mr Ambrose drove a 911 in anger.... in the US, for Mr Teulan's team... managed to plonk an old clunker (ex-TRG) car on pole for the class before being kicked to the back of the grid for some bodywork infringement... clearly no lack of speed that day.. or before.. or since.. and even he shared it with Mr Baird that weekend...



Mr Baird seems to have found himself a happy, lucrative home in the Porsche family, popping in for some endurance races in the V8Supercars, but mostly the year's focus seems to be Porsche-bound...

[scudd]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Dominated in BTCC? One season and finished 20th overall - hardly domination.

I've got heaps of time for Bairdo, both as a driver and to hang out with but let's not re-invent history eh.

+1
Wow, you speak some truth and ffs' bull**** has nowhere to hide.

Well done.

[rich07]

Bairdo also has raced the Cup Car's faster brethren the RSR in overseas races, Spa with Juniper and the Nurburgring with the Quinns and he certainly did well then. As GTR said, he's found a nice lucrative home driving Porsches and doing the enduros, still doing F1 with ONE, so I guess he's happy where he is at the moment.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Ambrose drove a 911 in anger.... in the US, for Mr Teulan's team... managed to plonk an old clunker (ex-TRG) car on pole for the class before being kicked to the back of the grid for some bodywork infringement... clearly no lack of speed that day.. or before.. or since.. and even he shared it with Mr Baird that weekend...
Mr Baird seems to have found himself a happy, lucrative home in the Porsche family, popping in for some endurance races in the V8Supercars, but mostly the year's focus seems to be Porsche-bound...

Anbrose is all class-- no question about that-- I always thought that all the way from FF days.
He shocked the hell out of the Americans who had dealt with Teulan about that rent-a-racecar deal and thought they were dealing with d...heads like Teulan.Smartest thing he did was to take real racing drivers with him!!
Just to make the point about how important the "team" aspect is-- Mark Skaife is ( note I said "is" not was) a great driver -- and he would not be happy with his results this weekend.

[Trustno1]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Anbrose is all class-- no question about that-- I always thought that all the way from FF days.
He shocked the hell out of the Americans who had dealt with Teulan about that rent-a-racecar deal and thought they were dealing with d...heads like Teulan.Smartest thing he did was to take real racing drivers with him!!
Just to make the point about how important the "team" aspect is-- Mark Skaife is ( note I said "is" not was) a great driver -- and he would not be happy with his results this weekend.

YEP especially with an elite classed driver pipping him twice & probably 3rd time if he DNF

[chavez]

Originally Posted by NinnyMan

Sorry to say, but the racing seems to be very processional....more so then V8's.
The gap yesterday seemed to be about a car length or more through the top half.

I mean, I don't want to see the BS of the Red Bull Race-off farce, but it would
be nice to actually see a battle for the lead rather then follow the leader,
which is almost common place with this series.

Didn't we have an entire series of Carrera Cup when there wasn't a single change in the lead in any race throughout the season?

The cars are great, and probably a delight to drive, but as a racing spectacle they are very poor.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by scudd

+1
Wow, you speak some truth and ffs' bull**** has nowhere to hide.

Well done.

Sigh.... Pot shot after pot shot, but you still humiliate yourself by missing the point AGAIN!

The point being, that OTHER than in wobbly under tyred, aero deprived techno dumb V8s, Bairdo has always been at or near the top of the time sheets....

And to call THAT bs, is simply laughable.

[formerf1champ]

Regarding Baird, I just want to know, what has put off the better teams from giving him a shot, or a second, third try? Why, after the first round at PI, was he nowhere for the rest of the season? SBR have a low opinon of him, as far as I'm aware. Is he a complete a****** away from the camera? I can't believe he has his papers stamped. so to speak, while Lee Holdsworth gets drives because team owner/managers think he's a good bloke.

Originally Posted by chavez

Didn't we have an entire series of Carrera Cup when there wasn't a single change in the lead in any race throughout the season?

The cars are great, and probably a delight to drive, but as a racing spectacle they are very poor.

This type of class should not be in this country. Too flashy, it doesn't "fit" here. An Asian series, possibly Tasman, but not an Australian series. I don't get why some people don't get this.

[speedreader]

C'mon guys, credit where credit is due. Just because Baird doesn't have a glittering career in an Aussie V8 does not mean he cant drive !

For those of you who like knocking him, take your blinkers off & accept a challenge - try and name another Australian or New Zealander driver with more FIA approved National & International circuit racing Championships than he has. 'IF' you can find another, take note of the level of company Bairdo stands alongside.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Regarding Baird, I just want to know, what has put off the better teams from giving him a shot, or a second, third try? Why, after the first round at PI, was he nowhere for the rest of the season? SBR have a low opinon of him, as far as I'm aware. Is he a complete a****** away from the camera? I can't believe he has his papers stamped. so to speak, while Lee Holdsworth gets drives because team owner/managers think he's a good bloke.

This type of class should not be in this country. Too flashy, it doesn't "fit" here. An Asian series, possibly Tasman, but not an Australian series. I don't get why some people don't get this.

SBR's opinion of Mr Baird cant be too bad, being hired for the enduros this year

[Crash Test]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

There is more $$$ spent trying to get some rich kid through formula ford per season than most guys would spend on CC including the car purchase.

Carrera Cup cars cost what these days? They must be rubbish...

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by rich07

Bairdo also has raced the Cup Car's faster brethren the RSR in overseas races, Spa with Juniper and the Nurburgring with the Quinns and he certainly did well then. As GTR said, he's found a nice lucrative home driving Porsches and doing the enduros, still doing F1 with ONE, so I guess he's happy where he is at the moment.

and he did comment during the telecast when talking of the cars he will be driving this year, including the Porsche and the SBR Falcon, "give me a Porsche anyday"

[Woolley]

What is it, national handbags day down under? Not had to intervene in so many threads in one evening for a long time.

Please remember the rule 'attack the post, not the poster'. If you can't play by the rules, don't play.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

This type of class should not be in this country. Too flashy, it doesn't "fit" here. An Asian series, possibly Tasman, but not an Australian series. I don't get why some people don't get this.

I am no great fan of any one spec series-- and certainly never of Porsche(the Australian company) and it's attitude--it has been nothing but disruptive and elistist in it's approach--- that said-- your comments are misguided!!
The reality is that Carrera Cup is here(again) and it has been seen in the past to have credibility and has offered an affordable way to showcase up and coming talent.
For me-- it can fulfill all Porsches aims for the series--but it needs that injection of up and coming talent-- as well as guys that can afford it.

[deano2]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I am no great fan of any one spec series-- and certainly never of Porsche(the Australian company) and it's attitude--it has been nothing but disruptive and elistist in it's approach--- that said-- your comments are misguided!!
The reality is that Carrera Cup is here(again) and it has been seen in the past to have credibility and has offered an affordable way to showcase up and coming talent.
For me-- it can fulfill all Porsches aims for the series--but it needs that injection of up and coming talent-- as well as guys that can afford it.

the field looked pretty talented from where i was sitting....racing was great especially stephen richards coming through the field .. and skaife and frentzen having a great dice in r3...bairdo had the car sideways coming onto the main straight!!!

[formerf1champ]

I'd have sworn there was a post I saw from Sheep Stations, slamming me for my opinion and the use of the word "flashy", something about me being a bogan? When I checked the thread this morning. Cbf responding to it then. Anyway...

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

SBR's opinion of Mr Baird cant be too bad, being hired for the enduros this year

It's only been 12 years! I'm only asking the question because I'm interested to know what he's lacking, or lacked, to be successful at a higher level. You look at his record, he's extemely successful in lower national competition, this includes NZ series. But, as impressive as his record is in that level, it's as mediocre one step up. If you compare it to cricket, it's like a batsmen who scores trillions of runs in Sheffield Sheild, but struggles to scrape up a 50 in international level.

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I am no great fan of any one spec series-- and certainly never of Porsche(the Australian company) and it's attitude--it has been nothing but disruptive and elistist in it's approach--- that said-- your comments are misguided!!
The reality is that Carrera Cup is here(again) and it has been seen in the past to have credibility and has offered an affordable way to showcase up and coming talent.
For me-- it can fulfill all Porsches aims for the series--but it needs that injection of up and coming talent-- as well as guys that can afford it.

If we are going to have a fair dinkum Carrera Cup in Australia, taking into account the current motorsport scene here, then something else has to give way. Something like scrapping the Dunlop series for instance. Motorsport isn't that big here to accomodate a Carrera Cup when there V8SC and Dunlop. Carrera Cup is too big a commitment for too many potential competitiors to establish itself as a serious long term series. Hence, the series folded pretty quickly the first time around. If whoever restarted the series thinks they'll succeed this time with, maybe, a different "business model", they're dreaming.

There are many other series that can "showcase" up and coming talent that "fit", this one isn't necessary. When I think back to when the Carrera Cup started first time out, it was a joke, there was already a Porsche series! Then it, pretty much, killed off the Porsche Cup. The Porsche Cup was a good series that was developing. At the time, it could've evolved into, maybe, the highest level amateur class in Australia and certainly was a class the best amateurs in Australia could aspire to (there's your "showcase" for "talent", up and coming or otherwise). The only difference is, the class doesn't force as big of a commitment to participate in it, hence, fields for Porsche Cup were double of Carrera. I suppose, the GT3 Cup is the re-invention of Porsche Cup (30+ cars to 15), but all momentum has been lost. Some admin/people just don't get it

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

There are many other series that can "showcase" up and coming talent that "fit", this one isn't necessary. When I think back to when the Carrera Cup started first time out, it was a joke, there was already a Porsche series! Then it, pretty much, killed off the Porsche Cup. The Porsche Cup was a good series that was developing. At the time, it could've evolved into, maybe, the highest level amateur class in Australia and certainly was a class the best amateurs in Australia could aspire to (there's your "showcase" for "talent", up and coming or otherwise). The only difference is, the class doesn't force as big of a commitment to participate in it, hence, fields for Porsche Cup were double of Carrera. I suppose, the GT3 Cup is the re-invention of Porsche Cup (30+ cars to 15), but all momentum has been lost. Some admin/people just don't get it

I agree with you 110% on these points.If you look at my history on the forum you will see my record of comments about this topic.
Part of my references here to Porsche doing something( putting their hand in their pockets)now to save Carrera Cup as it is.It has always been their "baby" and they were happy to sacrifice those Porsche competitors in the past( and some that left then forever) and leave the series to fall over a few years ago.You can also credit Porsche with escalating the costs for all competitors in all categories( by paying ridiculous $ amounts to CAMS for CMA) and to V8 Super Taxi to appear on their programs.
That said-- it is history and fact that we need to deal with the hear and now. To that end I want to see the best Carrera Cup racing possible in 2012 and the future.

[speedreader]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ
It's only been 12 years! I'm only asking the question because I'm interested to know what he's lacking, or lacked, to be successful at a higher level. You look at his record, he's extemely successful in lower national competition, this includes NZ series. But, as impressive as his record is in that level, it's as mediocre one step up. If you compare it to cricket, it's like a batsmen who scores trillions of runs in Sheffield Sheild, but struggles to scrape up a 50 in international level.

I would like to agree with you formerf1champ but I'm struggling to accept your opinion about 'lower level national competition'. To many, Aussie V8's are just another national touring car category, albeit a very successful one but what makes you think they are that much 'higher' in the order of things compared to Internationally regarded classes like Porsche Carrera Cup and the NZ 'International' Formula Pacific ?

He has been competitive in virtually everything he has ever raced all over the world and is highly regarded by many. He is also always in demand as an V8 co driver so obviously there isnt too much concern about his speed and ability. Sometimes it can just be something as simple as the wrong place at the wrong time that causes a specific career direction ?

As for the Porsche Carrera Cup class, I'd love to give it a go but do have to agree they need to look at reducing a bit of grip or something to help create some 'racing' instead of supremely skilled, high speed precision driving.

[nafe!]

Regarding baird and his history with v8supercars, like many a driver who has tried v8supercars in their current format which requires a very unique driving style he has openly admitted to not being able to get that perfect sweet spot with the cars.

He is able to get them hustling pretty well as his efforts in the enduro's always show but rarely gets them to their absolute outright pace.

I believe it was as recent as the last month or so that he commented on this.

He has decided to concentrate his driving career on porsches, a car and its driving style which he has mastered and as a result is one of the worlds best porsche drivers.

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by deano2

the field looked pretty talented from where i was sitting....racing was great especially stephen richards coming through the field .. and skaife and frentzen having a great dice in r3...bairdo had the car sideways coming onto the main straight!!!

We were obviously watching the same racing Deano. Silver, I wish the world was more philanthropic as well, this old b could do with a friendly sponsor too...but there is young talent in the field. Foster, Tweedie, Gaunt, kiwi kid with a long name, even 'young' Kingsley whose dad busted a nut and a piggy bank to get him to Clipsal. Steven Richards offering a FF performer a CC test, plenty of examples.

But one thing to remember is it is an 'elitist' sport regardless and they don't hand out Porsches like lollies. Or Ferraris or Astons...

There's no tax offset, guaranteed sales return or government rebate for giving a fast kid a car that he can easily hang off a wall or another competitors car. So why does Porsche have too?

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

Silver, I wish the world was more philanthropic as well, this old So why does Porsche have too?

As you are aware-- there is no simple short answer to that.Some of my thoughts go like this--Porsche philosophy is that they must make money from motorsport-- part of that is to put something in to get something back.As a company-- they are in a position to ''influence" potential sponsors-- some effort could be made to get that in the right places.
I have tried(even today) to not get into the historical aspects of how Porsche skewered a lot of good people in the process of getting Carrera Cup running-- they always wanted to be king-pin in relation to what,who,how the racing happened--- but that also carries some responsibilities with it.
Out of that-- my view is they should help themselves now-- by doing some real seeding to assist some of the guys that we both know have real talent.Chances are these some of the guys I refer to could be much better drivers than some of the silver spoon brigade( both young and old).
I have stated many times that one make series can easily be processional and quickly lose spectator appeal-- what will always liven it up is a few "no names" intent on making their mark on the future.
Lets face it--- put another 4-6 cars close to the front at the weekend would have made a hell of a race/s.
You know some of the guys I am referring to-- and I would love to see Matt with real support. That's 3 -- I have a few more if anyone wants to call me !!!
For the record--I am not related to any of them !!

[Silver 3]

I should have added-- some of the guys I am referring to are not fresh faced 18 year olds, they are mature ,responsible young guys.
Mostly what impresses me is speed-- combined with the ability to not damage the car and stay out of trouble.Generally speaking they have a lot of motor racing experience and would step straight in and be respectable very quickly( a test session-- not a years racing)

[deano2]

What carrera cup needs is good tv ...when you watch it live it's a lot more impressive than watching it on tv...the first ten or so cars were really honking but it was actually the back pack that was really entertaining...they were playing for sheep stations!!!

[dip it]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Regarding Baird, I just want to know, what has put off the better teams from giving him a shot, or a second, third try? Why, after the first round at PI, was he nowhere for the rest of the season? SBR have a low opinon of him, as far as I'm aware. Is he a complete a****** away from the camera? I can't believe he has his papers stamped. so to speak, while Lee Holdsworth gets drives because team owner/managers think he's a good bloke.

This type of class should not be in this country. Too flashy, it doesn't "fit" here. An Asian series, possibly Tasman, but not an Australian series. I don't get why some people don't get this.

Ross and Jimmy hold Bairdo in very high regard,on and off the track.