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Old 3 Nov 2016, 19:54 (Ref:3685110)   #126
Rubio
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Rubio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Emotions apart:

TC1 was actually a good concept and it could have worked. There were quite a lot of very good races (when Citroens were in the middle) but Citroen just raised the level way too much probably. Shame really

TC1 didn't appeal to other manufacturers and that was the problem. Most efforts globally go now into Formula E and WEC. Recenlty I read a Russian article where it was mentioned that Hyundai was the manufacturer that should have entered in 2017 but they refused.

I like the current concept of WTCC but I have to admit that to be honest it doesn't work for global audience, spectator figures are not growing so maybe it's time for a major overhaul.

I believe it may be appealing for Volvo to build a Class 1 car, actually Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lexus are closer competitors for them compared with Lada. But still it will be hard to implement these regulations.

Will be interesting to see what comes next. Basically for now it's time for the championship to survive until 2019. i think next year it will be 14-15 cars. As for 2018 hard to tell
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Old 3 Nov 2016, 19:56 (Ref:3685111)   #127
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Class One cars around Vila Real would be amazing.
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Old 3 Nov 2016, 19:56 (Ref:3685112)   #128
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Metzo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
why? Let them run for 1-2 more years in ETCC (with TCR as class 2) so Honda and Volvo can celebrate a title and then let them ritire.
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Old 3 Nov 2016, 20:37 (Ref:3685121)   #129
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According to the wtcc blog Huff will not part of the Honda WTCC team. Norbi, Tiago and a japanese driver will be the 3 pilot.

Doeas any of you know anything about this?
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Old 3 Nov 2016, 21:42 (Ref:3685130)   #130
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As I already said before, I hope that TCR becomes what WTCC was in the early years, before TC1 and with less BS then in the diesel years.

Like it or not, but there is plenty of evidence that manufacturer sport and bop goes together. It's not easy, but it can work and has often in the past (DTM 2016 just beeing the most recent example).

And look at the possible bright side: TCR Int. had more entertaining nailbiting races in 2016 then WTCC and DTM combined.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 10:25 (Ref:3685283)   #131
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Originally Posted by Fechna View Post
As I already said before, I hope that TCR becomes what WTCC was in the early years, before TC1 and with less BS then in the diesel years.

Like it or not, but there is plenty of evidence that manufacturer sport and bop goes together. It's not easy, but it can work and has often in the past (DTM 2016 just beeing the most recent example).

And look at the possible bright side: TCR Int. had more entertaining nailbiting races in 2016 then WTCC and DTM combined.
The only downside to TCR for me, on a 'FIA World' stage, would be no manufacturer teams. But that could change, I guess?
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 10:25 (Ref:3685284)   #132
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Originally Posted by Tarzaan View Post
According to the wtcc blog Huff will not part of the Honda WTCC team. Norbi, Tiago and a japanese driver will be the 3 pilot.

Doeas any of you know anything about this?
That would be a shame.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 10:47 (Ref:3685288)   #133
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The only downside to TCR for me, on a 'FIA World' stage, would be no manufacturer teams. But that could change, I guess?
TCR has a lot of potential

Something similar to the GT3 championship by SRO would be perfect: constructors produce and sell the car and then they can have only semi-official teams providing sponsors and more importantly drivers.

I really hope that TCR could improve...and i'm really interesting to see what Ribeiro has to say when the Lada announcement will be out
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 12:39 (Ref:3685305)   #134
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Bramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
TCR has tons of potential, but not for the WTCC. Just like GT3 isn't the option for a World Championship, you need something bigger like WEC for that.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 14:30 (Ref:3685322)   #135
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Imho there are 3 ways for the WTCC.


1 - World Championship (or World series) with a new, TCR based technical rules. The new rules should related to the TCR rules like thesuperbike rules related to superstock sules. So the basic should be the TCR cars, but limited changes/upgrades allowed.

Pro:
- This makes sure for private teams the aviability of the cars
- Low" costs and they could sell their cars to national series, etc.
- Limited dependency from the factories.
- This changes also allows factory teams to enter the series.
- Cars able to tourng car style racing.

Contra:
- this would be a confession of the current managements failure about the TC1 rules and the former management's right about the TCR rules.



2 - World Championship with DTM/Super-GT style Class One rules. To do this the have to convince all 6 DTM and Super-GT car makers to enter at least 3-3 cars, and stay in the series at least 5-5 years. They also need a BoP to balalnce the different engine rules od DTM and Super GT.


Pro:
- good looking cars
- lot's of factory backed teams and high quality drivers

Contra:
- Cars would be more expensive and limitedly aviable for private teams
- Major dependency from the factories
- Cars unable to tourng car style racing
- Low probability to convince enough factories to enter the series.


3 - Megrging with a current series and continues as a world championship or world series. The potential partners are DTM or TCR international. The partner bring the technical rules and the majority of the field. The WTCC bring the attaintability of the eurosport and the FIA backing/brand.

Pro:
- exixsting series, race calendar, etc.

Contra:
- the management of partner series take most of the controll. It'snot a problem for me or thespectators, but obviusly effects the current management's decission.


Until the series adopt the new rules, there will be a 2-3 season long temporary period. In this period the organizer should introduce a development stop, and make some kind of permament Bop.
The organizer also should spend a lot money to support the private teams, should pay maybe half of their costs - like Dorna did in the CRT era. There are 2 or 3 potential private Civic, 5 Citroen and 5-6 RML Cruze. With the two factory teams WTCC could possibly have a grid with about 20 cars. This might be enough in this temporary period.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 16:25 (Ref:3685339)   #136
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Originally Posted by Tarzaan View Post
Imho there are 3 ways for the WTCC.


1 - World Championship (or World series) with a new, TCR based technical rules. The new rules should related to the TCR rules like thesuperbike rules related to superstock sules. So the basic should be the TCR cars, but limited changes/upgrades allowed.

Pro:
- This makes sure for private teams the aviability of the cars
- Low" costs and they could sell their cars to national series, etc.
- Limited dependency from the factories.
- This changes also allows factory teams to enter the series.
- Cars able to tourng car style racing.

Contra:
- this would be a confession of the current managements failure about the TC1 rules and the former management's right about the TCR rules.



2 - World Championship with DTM/Super-GT style Class One rules. To do this the have to convince all 6 DTM and Super-GT car makers to enter at least 3-3 cars, and stay in the series at least 5-5 years. They also need a BoP to balalnce the different engine rules od DTM and Super GT.


Pro:
- good looking cars
- lot's of factory backed teams and high quality drivers

Contra:
- Cars would be more expensive and limitedly aviable for private teams
- Major dependency from the factories
- Cars unable to tourng car style racing
- Low probability to convince enough factories to enter the series.


3 - Megrging with a current series and continues as a world championship or world series. The potential partners are DTM or TCR international. The partner bring the technical rules and the majority of the field. The WTCC bring the attaintability of the eurosport and the FIA backing/brand.

Pro:
- exixsting series, race calendar, etc.

Contra:
- the management of partner series take most of the controll. It'snot a problem for me or thespectators, but obviusly effects the current management's decission.


Until the series adopt the new rules, there will be a 2-3 season long temporary period. In this period the organizer should introduce a development stop, and make some kind of permament Bop.
The organizer also should spend a lot money to support the private teams, should pay maybe half of their costs - like Dorna did in the CRT era. There are 2 or 3 potential private Civic, 5 Citroen and 5-6 RML Cruze. With the two factory teams WTCC could possibly have a grid with about 20 cars. This might be enough in this temporary period.
For me the only realistic thing would be option 1.
Which meanS take lotti'S idea and transform wtcc into a series where those manufacture that in tce give to team their cars now can enter officially.

Btw this won't be possible already next year.
Realistically I think wtcc will continue also next year maybe reducing round from 11/12 to 10 then if they are a minimum wise they would avoid Street circuit who are useless for the show but in the while increase a lot costs in case off car damage.
In this way volvo or honda could finally win the title and become world champion. Speaking about indipendent I hope they will find some way to reduce their cost and succeed to have atleast 15/16 cars like in first year of tc1 rules.
From 2018 I hope things will finally change and wtcc and tcr international could find a way to become one only fia world champion
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 16:49 (Ref:3685342)   #137
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Originally Posted by iceman-1987 View Post
For me the only realistic thing would be option 1.
Which meanS take lotti'S idea and transform wtcc into a series where those manufacture that in tce give to team their cars now can enter officially.

Btw this won't be possible already next year.
Realistically I think wtcc will continue also next year maybe reducing round from 11/12 to 10 then if they are a minimum wise they would avoid Street circuit who are useless for the show but in the while increase a lot costs in case off car damage.
In this way volvo or honda could finally win the title and become world champion. Speaking about indipendent I hope they will find some way to reduce their cost and succeed to have atleast 15/16 cars like in first year of tc1 rules.
From 2018 I hope things will finally change and wtcc and tcr international could find a way to become one only fia world champion
I wouldn't be surprised to see them introducing TCR as a second class for next year. Not sure how many takers they'll find, but that's pretty much a standard desperation move when series get into problems with seriously thin grids.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 18:35 (Ref:3685358)   #138
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Rubio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Several sources report that WTCC will be back in Macau next year!

http://hosszabbitas.hu/wtcc/jovore-v...a-wtcc-makaoba
http://it.motorsport.com/tcr/news/la...l-wtcc-846675/

What's happening to motorsport these days? Such crazy news and rumours in all championships, not just touring car ones.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 19:45 (Ref:3685366)   #139
Tarzaan
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Originally Posted by iceman-1987 View Post
For me the only realistic thing would be option 1.
Which meanS take lotti'S idea and transform wtcc into a series where those manufacture that in tce give to team their cars now can enter officially.

Btw this won't be possible already next year.
Realistically I think wtcc will continue also next year maybe reducing round from 11/12 to 10 then if they are a minimum wise they would avoid Street circuit who are useless for the show but in the while increase a lot costs in case off car damage.
In this way volvo or honda could finally win the title and become world champion. Speaking about indipendent I hope they will find some way to reduce their cost and succeed to have atleast 15/16 cars like in first year of tc1 rules.
From 2018 I hope things will finally change and wtcc and tcr international could find a way to become one only fia world champion
Yes, the fisrt one woulld be the easiest way, but it would hurts some ego, so imho the current managements try to avoid it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
I wouldn't be surprised to see them introducing TCR as a second class for next year. Not sure how many takers they'll find, but that's pretty much a standard desperation move when series get into problems with seriously thin grids.
The two class scennario wasn't work in 2014 and imho it won't work next year too. That's why eurosport events give some/more money for the private entrys. There are about 20 aviable TC1 cars (not including the Vestas), run all of them!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio View Post
Several sources report that WTCC will be back in Macau next year!

http://hosszabbitas.hu/wtcc/jovore-v...a-wtcc-makaoba
http://it.motorsport.com/tcr/news/la...l-wtcc-846675/

What's happening to motorsport these days? Such crazy news and rumours in all championships, not just touring car ones.
I think it is just a speculation. Omly thing sure: the Macao race will not the part of TCR Internationa Series.

Imho the organizers want a kind of one weekend TCR finale with the best of TCR cars around the world like in the F3 race.
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Old 4 Nov 2016, 21:57 (Ref:3685395)   #140
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Fechna should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
S2000 was spectacular enough to be the top tier TC category for a decade. Now TCR, just as fast, arguably better looking, is not enough... We've been through downsizing twice now, after Group A to ST and then to S2000, and it rescued TC Racing as we know it twice. I don't understand how on earth anyone could believe that any other formula, especially the crappy, faky Class One could do that. Every formula that heavily needs manufacturers with big budgets is bound to be doomed right now. Mark my words: The only Series apart from maybe Formula one with expensive high technology that will flourish is Formula E. TCR just like NGTC produce great racing, a big variety of non-spec cars, and a Formula, that doesn't cost a dime for manufacturers. It generates money in the long haul. What it lacks now is promotion, the possibility of bigger cars and RWD (see BTCC) and more great drivers and teams and to be a world championship that never shivers, when a works team signs of.

It won't happen probably, but if Christmas would come early my wish would be a 3 car works entry by VW with Huffy, Tarquini and Timo Scheider. With exactly the same car WRT had this year.

Last edited by Fechna; 4 Nov 2016 at 22:04.
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Old 5 Nov 2016, 10:40 (Ref:3685472)   #141
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I don't see the LADAs turning up in private hands.

Maybe Lotti and his TCR Int Series can take over the WTCC crown?
Privateer teams with some financial and marketing support from manufacturers.

- Honda
- Opel
- SEAT
- VW
- Audi
- Kia
- (Alfa Romeo)
- (Subaru)
- (Ford)

Each entering 3 cars (e.g. Opel, Kia, VW) to 5 cars (e.g. Honda, SEAT, Audi) + a couple of real privateers.
I would not have a problem with this. At the end for me touring car racing is about racing action not technology.
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Old 5 Nov 2016, 14:24 (Ref:3685501)   #142
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Having thought about it, I think they should go TCR route, the quality of racing has gone down since they introduced the TC1 rules and TCR should see better racing again
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Old 5 Nov 2016, 15:43 (Ref:3685515)   #143
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Mark0994 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Tarquini say he is too young to retire
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Old 5 Nov 2016, 19:52 (Ref:3685594)   #144
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Originally Posted by Tarzaan View Post
The two class scennario wasn't work in 2014 and imho it won't work next year too. That's why eurosport events give some/more money for the private entrys. There are about 20 aviable TC1 cars (not including the Vestas), run all of them!
maybe they could get more teams/drivers to start if they would introduce a new Independents Trophy only for the RML Cruze?
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Old 5 Nov 2016, 20:28 (Ref:3685600)   #145
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http://www.serbiaring.com/vesti/tark...-tako-prestao/
Tarquini say he is too young to retire
I love the spirit in this one!
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Old 6 Nov 2016, 22:37 (Ref:3686058)   #146
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Metzo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and ideas how the schedule for 2017 could look like? now that citroen is gone and lada are supposed to leave i doubt the wtcc will keep the races in france and russia, there is also a big question behind the event in thailand.

which countries could join the schedule or will it be smaller than before (10 rounds in stead of 12)?
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Old 9 Nov 2016, 14:35 (Ref:3686761)   #147
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Guerrieri hope he would compete in 2017 WTCC
http://www.serbiaring.com/vesti/geri...e-sa-kamposom/
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Old 10 Nov 2016, 17:54 (Ref:3686998)   #148
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http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/...wtcc-for-2017/
Lada has confirmed WTCC exit
Also confirmed making New Vesta's for TCR and SP class.
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Old 10 Nov 2016, 18:48 (Ref:3687007)   #149
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yasssss TCR Vesta's!
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Old 10 Nov 2016, 19:18 (Ref:3687015)   #150
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yasssss TCR Vesta's!
Vesta for RCRS probably will not meet the requirements of the TCR. The new car is likely to be constructed similar to the TCR, but with the national homologation. About TCR-version no one said anything.

Also in Russian Championship allowed TC2 / TC2T cars and old Leon Cups.
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