[Official] Driver of the race : Japanese GP

[Marbot]

Sometimes you just don't have the car to be able to overtake. Even Kobayashi has played 'follow-the-leader' on a number of occasions this season. Most drivers would attempt to overtake if their car was considerably faster than the car in front of them.

What we need is a grid full of cars that can actually overtake.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Sometimes you just don't have the car to be able to overtake. Even Kobayashi has played 'follow-the-leader' on a number of occasions this season. Most drivers would attempt to overtake if their car was considerably faster than the car in front of them.

What we need is a grid full of cars that can actually overtake.

You're absolutely right. That's the ultimate root of the problem... but I'm sure that many F1 drivers have conditioned themselves for a race where they'll do little or no overtaking and unless the opportunity is handed over on a plate to them, they're not going to risk it. You only need to look at Hamilton's endeavours in the prior two races to see the outcome of an overtaking attempt. Kobayashi did give it a go at Suzuka, while others did not. That said, he was very lucky with the attempts he made.

All that said, the cars are the real problem here though, not the drivers.

[Aysedasi]

All true - and the sad thing is that we've been saying this - for years......

[chunterer]

Aggressive willing to have a go pedallers have stood out quite easily because most of the grid just aren't prepared or are too worried about their drives to risk it!

There's 2 drivers you wouldn't want behind you on the opening couple of laps because, one reason being that they are committed on cold tyres and that's Lewis and Fernando. We could easily add Kamui to that list!

Raikkonen was pretty press on, Glock showed it in the Toyota on ocassions but other than Lewis, Kobayashi is the first really aggressive opportunistic overtaker since JPM?

He is very reminiscent of Juan Pablo in fact.

[Marbot]

There is, however, a difference between getting passed with a faster car as opposed to one that's going at about the same speed.

If Lewis, Alonso or Kobayashi managed to overtake anyone it was more than likely that they found themselves in circumstances to have a faster car to overtake slower cars.

Alonso proving without doubt that he at least needs some outside help when it comes to overtaking something that isn't slower than he his on a circuit that normally isn't difficult to overtake on.

[Knowlesy]

Overtaking comes about as a result of the person behind being slightly quicker, this has always been the case and isn't a problem.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Overtaking comes about as a result of the person behind being slightly quicker, this has always been the case and isn't a problem.

Go right to the top of the class for that brilliant observation

[GT6]

only 1 candidate really Kobayashi

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Go right to the top of the class for that brilliant observation

Well I wasn't trying to be clever, it is stating the obvious clearly.

Just needs to be said when folk are apparently bemoaning the fact that cars travelling at the same speed aren't overtaking. How exactly would that work?

[davyboy]

Sometimes it has to be said

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well I wasn't trying to be clever, it is stating the obvious clearly.

Just needs to be said when folk are apparently bemoaning the fact that cars travelling at the same speed aren't overtaking. How exactly would that work?

As an example, Locost racing. All cars are pretty much the same speed (within 5mph I would think), and yet there is a colossal amount of overtaking. They have no aero, so there is a lot of drafting and using the hole in the air from the car in front to gain a bit of extra pace before the corners. Try watching them down the back straight at Snet - cars can change place two or three times on one lap on that one section of track.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JamesH

As an example, Locost racing. All cars are pretty much the same speed (within 5mph I would think), and yet there is a colossal amount of overtaking. They have no aero, so there is a lot of drafting and using the hole in the air from the car in front to gain a bit of extra pace before the corners. Try watching them down the back straight at Snet - cars can change place two or three times on one lap on that one section of track.

There's plenty of racing with overtaking in the lower formulae, non more so than in karting for many of the reasons you mention here James. IIRC though Christian Horner [a former kartist no less] claimed that if we wanted to see overtaking we should go to Shennington and that's not what F1 is all about (!) Kinda worrying isn't it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Overtaking comes about as a result of the person behind being slightly quicker, this has always been the case and isn't a problem.

Even though the person behind is quicker, doesn't always mean they'll overtake the slower person in front.

[Wims]

The drivers are so good and "equal" in F1, so that cuts down alot of the overtakings. They simply never make mistakes and their base pace is very similar. In Locost not so much.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Wims

The drivers are so good and "equal" in F1, so that cuts down alot of the overtakings. They simply never make mistakes and their base pace is very similar. In Locost not so much.

And some are more "equal" than others...

[E.B]

I am very surprised that some have voted for Hamilton as DoD.

I feel that he was the architecht of his race problems (and maybe McLarens poor showing) given he only managed a total of half a dozen timed laps in Practice thanks to throwing his update laden car at the barriers, in the process breaking his gearbox and 'giving himself' a 5 spot grid penalty. Not to mention that his race gearbox problems likely would likely not have happened had he been able to use the original box he damaged.

My opinion.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Bononi

And some are more "equal" than others...

Yup. Anyone that thinks all the cars in spec racing are equal is dead wrong.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yup. Anyone that thinks all the cars in spec racing are equal is dead wrong.

Ganassi and Penske spring to mind.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by E.B

I am very surprised that some have voted for Hamilton as DoD.

But not the most surprising.....

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by E.B

I am very surprised that some have voted for Hamilton as DoD.

I feel that he was the architecht of his race problems (and maybe McLarens poor showing) given he only managed a total of half a dozen timed laps in Practice thanks to throwing his update laden car at the barriers, in the process breaking his gearbox and 'giving himself' a 5 spot grid penalty. Not to mention that his race gearbox problems likely would likely not have happened had he been able to use the original box he damaged.

I'm fairly sure that I read somewhere that the damage on Hamilton's original gearbox was actually the result of his accident with Webber in Singapore, which was arguably not his fault (or not entirely his fault, in any case). Ironically, the team could have changed the gearbox without penalty after that race but didn't want him to have an old gearbox in Abu Dhabi.

EDIT: Ah yes, I did read that: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87359

And I'm not really understanding your logic of "if he hadn't had a gearbox change his new gearbox wouldn't have broken". Surely the new gearbox really ought to be able to last for at least one race if it's meant to be built to do four?

[beau1]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Yes, he was actually right up on the tail of his team-mate at one point. Really impressive.

I guess you just ignore fastest laps, qualifying postions compared with finishing postions and overtakes during races then. All of them Schumacher was more impressive at doing when compared with most of the rest of the feild at Japan, even his teammate.

[Born Racer]

He had to overtake because he was slower than Rosberg in qualifying, fastest laps are irrelevant if you're still behind and your finishing position will hopefully be higher up if you qualify poorly. Not a particularly impressive race by Michael.

[TrapezeArtist]

Be fair, Born Racer. It was a less un-impressive race than most others this year.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

He had to overtake because he was slower than Rosberg in qualifying, fastest laps are irrelevant if you're still behind and your finishing position will hopefully be higher up if you qualify poorly. Not a particularly impressive race by Michael.

And he wasn't my driver of the race or did you fail to acknowlege that point? There were two drivers that I think had better races.
You could use your argument against why Kobi shouldn't be awarded driver of the race too, so you don't really have a point.
Driver of the race is based on the race and not the whole weekend.

Considering the bad race he had at Singapore and pretty poor qualifying then I think he had a pretty good race in Japan. Out of everyone else who finished the race, who else would you suggest deserves to be named 3rd best driver then?

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by beau1

Kobayashi for a storming drive mainly without incident.
Vettel comes second for just keeping his head together.
Schumacher third for one of his best drives of the season.

I can see you made a top three, so fair enough for that, but you didn't vote for Kobayashi in the poll.

Originally Posted by beau1

And he wasn't my driver of the race or did you fail to acknowlege that point? There were two drivers that I think had better races.
You could use your argument against why Kobi shouldn't be awarded driver of the race too, so you don't really have a point.
Driver of the race is based on the race and not the whole weekend.

Considering the bad race he had at Singapore and pretty poor qualifying then I think he had a pretty good race in Japan. Out of everyone else who finished the race, who else would you suggest deserves to be named 3rd best driver then?

I did fail to acknowledge your point about him being your driver of the race because I didn't decide to read through the whole thread when responding to one post.

Could you use my argument about why Kobi shouldn't be driver of the race? Maybe, but I based it on his car being worse than Schumacher's and him making passing manoeuvres. What did Schumacher do? He passed Barrichello into the chicane. Kobayashi was passing people left, right and centre and just looked like a promising driver of the future. A bit like Schumacher did once.

I agree it was one of Schumacher's best drivers of the season but alas that is not saying a great deal. This is a seven-times world champion and I have higher expectations, but I suppose 6th was 'reasonable' based on his year. As others have stated before though, if it wasn't Schumacher that Rosberg had thrashed this year, Mercedes would probably have replaced that driver a while ago.

Who deserves to be third best driver? Well, hang on. Who says I even agree with your top three. Hamilton isn't even third. Now, I would put someone like Vettel or Alonso in third, and Hamilton second.