Formula FOUR

[tazracer]

Yep that right formula four not formula ford. Im looking for any information i can find on historic formula four racers, particularly the imp engined vixen vb4. and other imp engined cars.

I pick one up tonight thats not been run since the 70's with the aim of restoring it to racing condition again.

If anyone has any if info on a series / championship who might let a formula four out to play as well that would be great, my aim is to get it back out on the circuits, but i appreciate that might be limited to test days only if its not elidgible for any championship. if all else fails i might have to run it up the odd hill or two for some competition.

I'll post some pics once i get all the bits

[delta]

Look forward to seeing the pictures. I ran a Sparton F4 Imp powerd car back in tjhe 70's. Happy days. Marcus Mussa drove a Vixen back then. "I think ".

[Marcus Mussa]

I did indeed, in 1969. It was a VB1. A VB4 must be great to drive and really quick - not far off a 1000 cc F3 - presumably HSCC will take them in the Classic Racing Car series?

[Marcus Mussa]

The engine and box were from the Hillman Imp - I think the gearbox was modified by Jack Knight - I never changed ratios so I dont think one could on those boxes. Not sure. Top engines were all prepared by Carter. Carburation was free and everybody seemed to run different systems - some used even Stromberg carbs - I used Reece-Fish - they were downdraft. There are several very fast Imps in HSCC touring cars, so presumably there are some good engine builders around.

[Alan Morgan]

Although there is no "Invitation" class in HSCC Classic Racing Cars a Formula 4 would probably be eligible for Class G (Formula B/Formule Libre single seater up to 1600cc, built before 31/12/70)

[Marcus Mussa]

The Bob Jarvis and Pat Longhurst cars at Brands Hatch (or was it Mallory Park?) in 1969

[Marcus Mussa]

Mallory.

[tazracer]

The Hscc have said it would be ok in the HSCC Classic Racing Car Championship but not which class.

They have also said it may be possible to run in the Historic F3 as an invitation car and not for points.

SO thats looking encouraging.


I've got the car home, and currently working out, what I've got, whats missing and whats scrap!!!

[smokey mow]

I'd love to see some pictures of your project. i have two JW4 cars which I'm currenty restoring and at the same time I've been gathering together some of the history, news articles and ace programs for the F4 races.

One of my JW4's is very much original for when it was built in 1967 the second car is the "Carburol Special" that evolved into a hillclimb car in the 1970's.

The JW4 is currently fitted with a 500cc Triumph engine whist the Carburol Special thesedays has a 250cc Villiers Starmaker, my intentions are to compete within the invitation class of the 500 Owners Association.

There is a blog for my rebuild here
www.jw4.co.uk

[tazracer]

Hi ive been reading your thread for inspiration already.

Might have to wait a week or so for some pics. The car is currently hidden in the back of the truck and i need to get it out for photos when swmbo is out, as i erm havent told her i've now got 4 race cars lol. At least this is only a small one.

Managed to find all the gear linkage bits in a couple of boxes so quite please tonight.

My car currently has both the engines sat in the back along with some ropey looking mag wheels. They survived getting the slicks off without breaking. Not sure ill risk them though even once xrayed

[delta]

I would love to find my old Sparton, Last I heard she got destroyed at a Hillclimb some where.
This Pete St Barb who owned the Sparton before me.

[tazracer]

A couple of it quickly in the back of the truck.

The first one has a well used and hacked about set of body work just dropped on top, you can see the unused one behind it.



and a even poorer shot of the bare chassis and suspension. via shakey camera phone


The chassis and suspension is complete apart from a couple of bolts, so thats a great start, and i have one spare upper front wishbone.

not sure what to do on the wheel front I expect the mags are scrap so will need to source new ones.

The pedal box is also complete. but I do seem to be misssing a steering column !!

Its largely the engine and box where im missing parts, and will need to fabricate engine and box mounts, then work out some carbs and exhaust.

I also need to work out what angle to mount the engine, not sure if this was set by Vixen or if it varied by builder as I have seen some pics of the engine almost vertical. I understand the norm was 15 degrees from the imp position or vertical, vertical allowing you to use side drafts.

I dont have a radiator or a fuel tank so they will both need designing and fabricating.


The first job it to catalogue everything I have and then strip off the suspension and get the chassis blasted and then painted. Think I'll go for 2 pack rather than powder coat as i'll no doubt need to weld on or mod the odd bracket once its painted !!!

All the suspension was originally chrome plated so that will need stripping and replating, along with loads of brackets !!

Joe Tisdall has sent me some photos of his and the standard is set very high looking at them !!!!

[tazracer]

Originally Posted by delta

I would love to find my old Sparton, Last I heard she got destroyed at a Hillclimb some where. Attachment 42826
This Pete St Barb who owned the Sparton before me.

Very pretty looking thing. I had heard of formula 4 but never really knew what it was, but all the cars do look very nice.

Going to be very different to drive from my tuscan challenge car, and erm a bit of a snug fit at 6 ft with size 10 boots !!!

[Marcus Mussa]

This might help with engine angle.
Marcus

[tazracer]

Im assuming the two chassis tubes in the cockpit are painted red as they might get a bit hot as the coolant runs through them !!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by tazracer

Im assuming the two chassis tubes in the cockpit are painted red as they might get a bit hot as the coolant runs through them !!

'It's the law' as they say- blue book refers! Not a problem in your Tuscan.....

Great period pics, Marcus, I'm guessing the F reg Triumph is a TR5. Yours?

Am I right in thinking that one or more Delta FF2000's ran in F4 with Imp engines? Or was it / were they hillclimb cars?

[tazracer]

does it really blimey, goes off to hunt for a blue book, and gaffa tape to keep eyes open whilst i attempt to read it.


true enough , section J

Cooling
5.10.1. Have any fluid carrying lines or tubes carrying
coolants through the driver/passenger compartment
painted red, and if non-metallic to be internally or
externally metal braided hydraulic pressure hose

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by tazracer

does it really blimey, goes off to hunt for a blue book, and gaffa tape to keep eyes open whilst i attempt to read it.

section J competitors vehicles.......

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Great period pics, Marcus, I'm guessing the F reg Triumph is a TR5. Yours?

No! I did not own a car, maybe the Triumph belonged to Bob Jarvis or Pat Longhurst - they had a garage called Townley Motors, in a dodgy part of London ... I think I went to Mallory Park with Giorgio Costa, who I had met in Canada and who was driving the VB1 I was going to end up buying. He had a Ford Anglia estate as a tow car. I remember seeing Emerson Fittipaldi in his first F3 race at that meeting! Those were the days my friend...

[GORDON STREETER]

I raced with Pat Longhurst for a number of years and I remember he used to take a fishing rod with him if we were at Mallory Park so he could while away the time between races, also if he broke down he always had a packet of fags in his overalls while he watched the rest of the race from trackside.
A real character sorely missed !

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by smokey mow

One of my JW4's is very much original for when it was built in 1967 the second car is the "Carburol Special" that evolved into a hillclimb car in the 1970's.

The JW4 is currently fitted with a 500cc Triumph engine whist the Carburol Special thesedays has a 250cc Villiers Starmaker, my intentions are to compete within the invitation class of the 500 Owners Association.

There is a blog for my rebuild here
www.jw4.co.uk

How weird - I've just read an article on the Carburol Special in an old Triple C magazine I got down from the loft. Never heard of it before, read the article and now see it mentioned on here!

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by smokey mow

I'd love to see some pictures of your project. i have two JW4 cars which I'm currenty restoring and at the same time I've been gathering together some of the history, news articles and ace programs for the F4 races.

One of my JW4's is very much original for when it was built in 1967 the second car is the "Carburol Special" that evolved into a hillclimb car in the 1970's.

The JW4 is currently fitted with a 500cc Triumph engine whist the Carburol Special thesedays has a 250cc Villiers Starmaker, my intentions are to compete within the invitation class of the 500 Owners Association.

There is a blog for my rebuild here
www.jw4.co.uk

Very cool stuff! I did not know these originated here in US, and I knew nothing about the F4 class. I guess it faded away when I was still a kid, and the cars went to autocross or the weeds. Great blog, fun looking project, best of luck to all involved.

[smokey mow]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Very cool stuff! I did not know these originated here in US, and I knew nothing about the F4 class. I guess it faded away when I was still a kid, and the cars went to autocross or the weeds. Great blog, fun looking project, best of luck to all involved.

Thank you, I appreciate your comments

[Rob29]

Only looked at this thread out of curiosity as to what is was aboutgoing to be a very confusing area.I remember F4 started in the 50s as 250cc motor cyckle engined series,cheaper version of the then 500cc F3? later in 70s added obsolete 1000cc F3 cars and the Imp engined mentioned here?
Now we have the BRDC F4 and an FIA F4 promised for next year

[Dellago Heli]

Hi my Name is Helmuth and I live next to Salzburg Austria. I am the owner of a Vixen VB1 which was raced by Keith Norman. The engine is on the other side built like the normal Imp.