Thundersports and group c2 ,Where are they now?

[cydna]

I am aware of a few C2 cars running in group c but increasingly the C2 Tiga cars, specifically, seem to be diminishing. I think two turned up at Silverstone classic but that's seems to be it for 2014.

Is Historic Group C becoming a little more exclusive and inadvertently encouraging C1 rather than C2 cars simply because the comparatively cheap to buy C2 cars are outclassed by the expensive to buy and run C1s, and cost.

So what became of all those Thundersports and British Group C2 cars that raced in the 1980s. I never watched the Birmingham superprix, or the British Group C Championship; I was aware of thembut Touring cars and F1 had my attention back then.
I know of quite a few C2 cars sitting around gathering dust, especially Tiga s ; occasionally they pop up for sale, but where are all the Thundersport cars?


Wouldn't it be good to see some of those British C2 cars mixed with thundersports cars as they were, and maybe the likes of Prosport Lm3000 ,stealth and Ultima out again maybe in some club or Historic events.

I know that there seems to be rather less expensive possibilities in the BRSCC Open sports car series, although it seems to only attract Radicals and latter open top cars.
They have classes for car engined open and closed top cars and cars over 2.0 litres.

I own a C2 car; are there any other owners or indeed is there an appetite from enthusiasts out there for these cars?

[andy97]

I always liked the C2 cars and I am a bit surprised they are not more popular on the "historic circuit". Perhaps HSCC should be persuaded to run a C2 only class within its Martini Trophy?

[rbm]

we (number 2 son and me) had some discussion over a one off C2 earlier this year, but it wasn't to be - as such however we did a fair bit of research.

two thing crippled it for us:

1. cost

Robin Ward who preps Spice's was quoted as year or so ago that realistically a £100k budget to have a car run for you a season on top of the car.

entry for the 2014 season was £18000+ for 5 races and Le Mans

2. cost - in our case the car we were interested in was very much project - a chopped down space frame, some suspension and the bodywork - however the seller had two C2 projects and didn't appear that keen on splitting and we didn't want the other car as it had no period race history. (for interest Robin Ward was quoted as a race ready Spice C2 being around the £200k).

I know these numbers are small change for many people and have never looked into the figures for a C1 so maybe this is part of the reason.

in the end though we were very interested it wasn't to be, with the accident and all and then buying the front engined Junior

[Thundersports]

The Historic Group C series seems to be doing it's best at pushing out the guys with the smaller budgets. Along with lifting the fuel restriction (favouring the Turbo cars) which was what Group C was originally about to create a level playing field. The HSCC did run a invitation class for Group C cars in it's Interserie revival series but it was poorly supported. The most prohibitive problem with running the cars like most big 70s/80s/90s single seaters and sportscars would be engine costs?

[Nick JM]

Originally Posted by rbm

we (number 2 son and me) had some discussion over a one off C2 earlier this year, but it wasn't to be - as such however we did a fair bit of research.

two thing crippled it for us:

1. cost

Robin Ward who preps Spice's was quoted as year or so ago that realistically a £100k budget to have a car run for you a season on top of the car.

entry for the 2014 season was £18000+ for 5 races and Le Mans

2. cost - in our case the car we were interested in was very much project - a chopped down space frame, some suspension and the bodywork - however the seller had two C2 projects and didn't appear that keen on splitting and we didn't want the other car as it had no period race history. (for interest Robin Ward was quoted as a race ready Spice C2 being around the £200k).

I know these numbers are small change for many people and have never looked into the figures for a C1 so maybe this is part of the reason.

in the end though we were very interested it wasn't to be, with the accident and all and then buying the front engined Junior

Maybe the lack of interest is to do with the cost/return? You could race quite a lot of other exciting entries with a budget like that which are also eligible for other series

[simon drabble]

I think cost is the main hurdle. I have a friend who raced a C1 car in Thundersports in period and still owns it today but has no intention of putting it all back together due to running costs... I am pretty sure he has a couple of DFV's with it.

Prosport LM300 used to run witth Group C 10/15 years ago didn't they? Surely it is better to get a full grid and then concentrate on refining it if required?

[oneofapair]

I have one : Group C2 Lyncar MS83/85. Bought a few years ago as a project,. Unfortunately not at the head of queue yet. Maybe one day!! Maybe???!!

[rbm]

The C2 we were interested in was a lovely project, straight forward tubular spaceframe (though somewhat chopped about). all the original bodywork, disc calipers needed a BMW engine and Hewland box and most of the suspension fabricating - nothing that was beyond a bloke in his shed .

But to be honest the cost of running for a season would have been beyond what a lowly draftsman could justify.

[cydna]

Originally Posted by rbm

The C2 we were interested in was a lovely project, straight forward tubular spaceframe (though somewhat chopped about). all the original bodywork, disc calipers needed a BMW engine and Hewland box and most of the suspension fabricating - nothing that was beyond a bloke in his shed .

But to be honest the cost of running for a season would have been beyond what a lowly draftsman could justify.

What car was it?

[rbm]

Originally Posted by cydna

what car was it?

It was the mortal remains of the Nykjaer

pic copyright S Haffner

[KA]

Looking at this purely from the viewpoint of a spectator, I reckon the mention of the Nykjaer and Lyncar is a good illustration of why we seem to have so few C2s- particularly the older C2s out. There's not only the issue of the cost of running a Group C car- and they're never going to be cheap to run- but the fact that (much like in period!) unless you've got a Spice (and probably an SE88 at that), then you're unlikely to be competitive.

Maybe what's needed is somewhere that these older C2 cars can run in addition to the main Group C races, even if it's as a class within another series?

[midgetman]

KA you're forgetting the whole concept of Historic Racing as defined by the famous Appendix K. It is a discipline apart aimed at celebrating the cars rather than winning trophies. Therefore the Corinthian ideal of just taking part is very important to any participant and running an interesting or unusual car is reward in itself.

Plus...the majority of amateur drivers are not the seasoned pros that used to race these cars and are not able to take them to the max, thereby giving wonderful opportunities for giant-killing. Please no-one take offence at this, it's not meant to be a dig!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by midgetman

KA you're forgetting the whole concept of Historic Racing as defined by the famous Appendix K. It is a discipline apart aimed at celebrating the cars rather than winning trophies. Therefore the Corinthian ideal of just taking part is very important to any participant and running an interesting or unusual car is reward in itself.

Plus...the majority of amateur drivers are not the seasoned pros that used to race these cars and are not able to take them to the max, thereby giving wonderful opportunities for giant-killing. Please no-one take offence at this, it's not meant to be a dig!

Problem is when the organiser advertises the series as being good value because it only costs 150 grand to do 6 races a year.
That is justified because it is much cheaper than modern national GT racing.
As we know Historic racing is not competitive in the same way as modern racing and really shouldn't be treated as such, but explaining that to them is difficult (& brave!).

Some C2 cars (even some C1s) were ran on pretty small budgets in period and with less people than today but the impression is that such period authenticity might not be too welcome these days.

In theory there is potential for giant killing but against people who can buy the best car, run new tyres every time the car goes out and can afford to wind up the power to the max etc. it is very difficult in such a field.
And the driver in the best car is pretty good himself.

[oneofapair]

Originally Posted by oneofapair

I have one : Group C2 Lyncar MS83/85. Bought a few years ago as a project,. Unfortunately not at the head of queue yet. Maybe one day!! Maybe???!!

Looming loss of storage may mean that the Lyncar and all of its spares will have to go!! Any interested parties please PM me.

Regards John Woods