Road cars that you want to see as GT race cars

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by rcarr

The problem that Nissan has, is their parent company Renault, they have their fingers in many pies, why would they want to commit to sportscars when they already have a car in the pinicle race series and they have their own set of championships.

The only reason I could see them coming into sportscar racing would be a Nissan badged factory sports prototype to take on Peugeot and Honda/Acura.

And how many people know Renault even owns Nissan?????

People come into my store all the time and don't even know what oil their car takes, let alone where it was built and who owns what.

As far as the generally public goes, one has nothing to do with the other.

[rcarr]

You'd be suprised. The Cranfield Nissan research centre is crawling with both Nissans and Renaults. Also there is alot of cross over between the Renault designers and Nissan designers. I know for a fact that Ajay Panshal, who famously designed the 350Z works at the Renault Design Centre in Paris. The Nissan design studio in Soho is also frequented by the Renault designers.

Why such a thing about Nissan NA? They brought the IMSA cars across when they were allowed by the ACO but Nissan in Japan have also been fairly successful, I am thinking Skylines. The last Nissan powered car at Le Mans was a sports prototype possibly european? I would love to see a SuperGT car come back across to Europe. But the fact still remains that Renault already have several sporting interest with both Renault and Nissan.

Did you know that Samsung was also under Renault's wing?

I love the sports prototypes but I am not anti-gt car! They are the back bone of international sportscar racing.

[The359]

Isn't the Nissan Versa built with Renault parts from the Clio?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by The359

Isn't the Nissan Versa built with Renault parts from the Clio?

if it isnt they wasted some engineering time to design the same car twice. and correct me if I'm wrong but the Infiniti G (2 door) is a glorified Z(Fairlady) NOT the skyline? I know my old managers G still said nissan on almost every part that was branded except within the cabin and the nose emblem, hell the valve covers said nissan until the second year, or at least his did. And arent there a few Gs racing in the GA series, albeit not that fast at Daytona but theres at least one I believe.

[dj4monie]

The 2 door G is a Z car, the 4 door is the Skyline. The Versa might be more Renault than previous cars, but that has has little to do with Nissan's performance image.

They are bring the Skyline GT-R to the biggest car market in the world, also the most fickle car market.

Take the GTO for example. It wasn't well received and GM had to go back and make it more aggressive looking and put the LS2 engine to boost power to make it more attractive in its market. It sold better, but they killed it anyway.

Nissan can't AFFORD something like that!

The Skyline GT-R will have to kick arse from day one. It will drive that home alot better if you BEAT GM and the Corvette Z06 STRAIGHT UP at say Sebring and at the 24hours of Le Mans.

That will put in the mind of the average performance car buyer that isn't familiar with the Skyline's history to maybe research the car more and respect it more since this market is built around V8 power.

I feel Nissan will do just that, not build a GT2, not build a prototype (at least not right away) but a GT1 car based on the Skyline GT-R street car, it makes sense, nothing else on the horizon in GT1 makes more sense than this.

[dj4monie]

The 2 door G is a Z car, the 4 door is the Skyline. The Versa might be more Renault than previous cars, but that has has little to do with Nissan's performance image.

They are bring the Skyline GT-R to the biggest car market in the world, also the most fickle car market.

Take the GTO for example. It wasn't well received and GM had to go back and make it more aggressive looking and put the LS2 engine to boost power to make it more attractive in its market. It sold better, but they killed it anyway.

Nissan can't AFFORD something like that!

The Skyline GT-R will have to kick arse from day one. It will drive that home alot better if you BEAT GM and the Corvette Z06 STRAIGHT UP at say Sebring and at the 24hours of Le Mans.

That will put in the mind of the average performance car buyer that isn't familiar with the Skyline's history to maybe research the car more and respect it more since this market is built around V8 power.

I feel Nissan will do just that, not build a GT2, not build a prototype (at least not right away) but a GT1 car based on the Skyline GT-R street car, it makes sense, nothing else on the horizon in GT1 makes more sense than this.

[kingkai]

- McLaren Mercedes SLR!!! (prototype built, project canceled)(building my own 1/24 GT1 )
- Mercedes new C-series (like the new DTM car)
- Ferrari FXX (To bad about the MC-12 story, I think this would have seen daylight when MC-12 program was homoligated)(Also building my own GT1 1/24 )
- Koenigsegg CCGT (ow, allready coming, if all goes to plan)
- Audi R8
- Rerrari 599 GTB (whehe Ferrari sucks at GT1, F575 not faster than Prodrives 550. Private test, imola-car (600/599) not either, if my rumor channel was right)(well... building my own 1/24 612 and 599 GT1 cars )
- Maserati Quattroporte
- BMW m6
- Bugatti Veyron
- Bentley Continental GT
- Nissan Skyline
If not enough
- Porsche C-GT

(- Citroën C5 DTM style (in brasil it raced last year in a look alike DTM, that is where the similarities end...)Or a C6 )

ps. Yes I know, I am a GT1 fetishist

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

The Skyline GT-R will have to kick arse from day one. It will drive that home alot better if you BEAT GM and the Corvette Z06 STRAIGHT UP at say Sebring and at the 24hours of Le Mans.

And that will NEVER happen, without years of testing. If even then.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Nismo has the capacity to keep it in-house and seek outside support to fund it. I don't know why Fog is negative on that, Nissan N/A has relationships with Kuhmo tires for example in the CORR series, long relationships with Bridgestone, Penzoil/Shell and a few others.

They can get this done...

Fogelhund is down on that primarily because he's spoken to them, and to their Japanese counterparts.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

And that will NEVER happen, without years of testing. If even then.

I don't know about YEARS. After all, it took GM only the adoption of racing the full series schedule that made the car competitive not only at Le Mans but anywhere.

Benz took something they already knew (ITC/DTM cars) and turned it into the CLK-GTR GT1 in 90 days. Not taking into account the problems at Le Mans; they did win back to back FIA GT titles and effectively killed the GT1 era.

The merger didn't happen till '98 so Benz did it largely on their own wallet.

So your saying Nissan doesn't wanna do it, not that it can't do it?

Money shortens development time from years to months to weeks for that matter.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

So your saying Nissan doesn't wanna do it, not that it can't do it?

From what I read on the GT-R forums that is correct. The impression that even the most die hard Nissan & Infinity fans dont think that Nissan Japan nor partner Renault will foot the bill. That the car will sell on its own, and let the AFTERMARKET tuners and race teams do the work. Corporate is staying out of it.

But then again. things change overnight, so who really knows.

[AU N EGL]

Current GT Homologation cars:

GT2 5 USA 01.04.1996 Chrysler DODGE VIPER GTS 2009

GT 012 I 01.04.2002 Maserati Spa 3200 GT 2009
GT 013 USA 01.04.2003 Saleen Mustang SR Saleen S7 2011+
GT 014 I 01.10.2003 Ferrari Spa 575M Maranello 2010
GT 015 I 01.04.2004 Lamborghini Spa MURCIELAGO 2011
GT 016 GB 01.06.2004 Aston Martin Lagonda Ltd DB 9 COUPE 2011
GT 017 I 01.11.2004 Maserati SpA MC 12 – 5'998.8cc 2012+
GT1 001 USA 01.05.2006 Saleen SALEEN S7 TWIN TURBO 2013
GT1 002 USA 01.05.2006 General Motors CORVETTE Z06 2013

GT2 001 I 01.04.2005 Maserati SpA COUPE GRAN SPORT – 4'243.83cc 2012+
GT2 002 GB 01.09.2005 Lotus EXIGE – 1'796cc 2012
GT2 003 D 01.02.2007 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) 2014
GT2 004 I 01.03.2007 Ferrari SpA F430 2014

Source: http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ion_Number.pdf

[Maxwell Murder]

I read somewhere that there is (or will be) rule changes to the Super GT GT500 class making it closer to the FIA GT1 class and eventually have them both be able to compete with eachother. So assuming Nissan will replace the 350Z with the Nissan GTR, then I think it could be entirely possible for the Nissan GTR to compete in Le Mans, FIA GT, etc. Depending on when these rule changes will come into full affect. Only time will tell I guess.

As for cars I would like to see as a GT car. Being a big fan of the Dodge Viper and Ferrari 599, I would love to see them both in GT1.
I'd like to see an FIA GT3 spec Elfin MS8 Streamliner, it would be awesome to see that car battling it out with the likes of Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lotus and Maserati.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

From what I read on the GT-R forums that is correct. The impression that even the most die hard Nissan & Infinity fans dont think that Nissan Japan nor partner Renault will foot the bill. That the car will sell on its own, and let the AFTERMARKET tuners and race teams do the work. Corporate is staying out of it.

I can't speak for the GT-R specifically, but I do know that NISMO Japan was looking very hard at the ALMS several years ago. They were looking at entering for 2006, and obviously ultimately chose not to. Part of that was Nissan North America refused to fund any of it. Based on the conversations I've had, it will take a massive change in thinking at NNA for them to start funding motorsports such as this. Essentially they don't believe in halo marketing, and they've stated that cars like the 350Z sell enough on their own, that it doesn't warrant putting funding into racing. I agree the upcoming Nissan GT-R would be a great addition to the fields, but I'll be surprised to see such a car.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a NSX on the GT1 grid once it begins production though.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I can't speak for the GT-R specifically, but I do know that NISMO Japan was looking very hard at the ALMS several years ago. They were looking at entering for 2006, and obviously ultimately chose not to. Part of that was Nissan North America refused to fund any of it. Based on the conversations I've had, it will take a massive change in thinking at NNA for them to start funding motorsports such as this. Essentially they don't believe in halo marketing, and they've stated that cars like the 350Z sell enough on their own, that it doesn't warrant putting funding into racing. I agree the upcoming Nissan GT-R would be a great addition to the fields, but I'll be surprised to see such a car.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a NSX on the GT1 grid once it begins production though.

Some Nissan forums sponserd that so called Skyline GT-R ( or pheudo GT-R for Sebring and Long Beach in Speed World GT Challange in 2006. IIRC that car was boasted to be just like the old Skyline and a prelude to the new GT-R. That car was so frick'n slow that they were told not to come back untill they get more speed and far better drivers.

And spending the whole years budget on two races did not help either.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I can't speak for the GT-R specifically, but I do know that NISMO Japan was looking very hard at the ALMS several years ago. They were looking at entering for 2006, and obviously ultimately chose not to. Part of that was Nissan North America refused to fund any of it. Based on the conversations I've had, it will take a massive change in thinking at NNA for them to start funding motorsports such as this. Essentially they don't believe in halo marketing, and they've stated that cars like the 350Z sell enough on their own, that it doesn't warrant putting funding into racing. I agree the upcoming Nissan GT-R would be a great addition to the fields, but I'll be surprised to see such a car.

Things might be different with Renault's controlling majority, especially as it seems like the F1 adventure hit a rough spot now. Additionally, the GT-R is a different beast, enjoys much more popularity in western countries and is launched in direct opposition to already existing models by other manufacturers. The 350Z had its unique niche and an incredibly low price. The GT-R is going up against the Porsche Turbo and remotely the Gallardo, R8, RS4 and new M3.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a NSX on the GT1 grid once it begins production though.

Too bad the NA1 did not see much action here beyond Le Mans stint in the mid-nineties. The GT2 won in '95, but the GT1 entries were horribly unreliable.
A new NSX would be brilliant and a definite contestant for current GT classes. Gran Turismo 4 had a NA2 '02 GT1 Concept. Would have been brilliant if there had been such a car.

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Some Nissan forums sponserd that so called Skyline GT-R ( or pheudo GT-R for Sebring and Long Beach in Speed World GT Challange in 2006. IIRC that car was boasted to be just like the old Skyline and a prelude to the new GT-R. That car was so frick'n slow that they were told not to come back untill they get more speed and far better drivers.

The automotiveforums.com R34 I think. Amateur effort and not comparable to real race preps from real teams. An idealistic pipe dream.
A factory effort or experienced teams like Oreca or Zakspeed might have had more success in fielding it.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Satorian

Things might be different with Renault's controlling majority, especially as it seems like the F1 adventure hit a rough spot now. Additionally, the GT-R is a different beast, enjoys much more popularity in western countries and is launched in direct opposition to already existing models by other manufacturers. The 350Z had its unique niche and an incredibly low price. The GT-R is going up against the Porsche Turbo and remotely the Gallardo, R8, RS4 and new M3.

Hmmm Here is a thought. What if Renault rebadeged the GT-R to Renault GT-R and formed a REAL motorsports team in GT1 or GT2 ??? Now that would be cool. Renault certainly has the resources and technolgy.

[Satorian]

Not going to happen I think. Renault is influential and holds more than enough shares to be the only single party of vetoing power in Nissan, but I don't think they can decide model politics just like that. At least I don't see how Renault could possibly make up for being granted the GT-R for its own lineup.

That aside, the GT-R is deeply ingrained into the Nissan perception and it's a Nissan legacy they won't just give away. A joint effort in developing and fielding the race car would be great though.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Satorian

A joint effort in developing and fielding the race car would be great though.

Yah your most likley correct. But the way this thread is going that Nissan G-R seems to be the most ( or at least on this forum and another I participate on) the most desired GT race car.

[Satorian]

Well, the gojira is a fantastically iconic car (it was before 2F2F *blegh*).
I'd love to see the R35, as well as the NSX replacement, participate in international FIA GT or LMS/ALMS/Le Mans racing.

The Falken R34 participating in the Nordschleife 24h was always a crowd favorite and crowd pleaser. They got more than warm welcomes whenever they turned up.

[dj4monie]

If it did happen I think you would see Benetton involved in R&D or maybe just NISMO Japan, NISMO USA would more than likely run the car.

Nissan presently has no ties to anybody currently owning or running a team in Champ Car, NASCAR or Sportscar. Now Eddie Cheaver did stay with the Infiniti engine program until it went away. He's now in Grand Am, but isn't lighting it up I would say over there and I'm sure Nissan doesn't want an over the hill F1 driver and former watered down Indy 500 winner anyway.

My feeling if it DOES get the nood, then NISMO Japan and USA would work together, form a team with some Japanese and American employees and more than likely take somebody like Richard Lyons or Mike Krumm from the GT500 series to run the car.

Keeps cost down and in-house....

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Satorian

Things might be different with Renault's controlling majority, especially as it seems like the F1 adventure hit a rough spot now. Additionally, the GT-R is a different beast, enjoys much more popularity in western countries and is launched in direct opposition to already existing models by other manufacturers. The 350Z had its unique niche and an incredibly low price. The GT-R is going up against the Porsche Turbo

Of course when I talked (and exchanged emails) with the Director of NISMO about their programs, Renault already had a controlling majority, at which point NNA refused to provide any budget. As you mention, their target (Nissan's in house target) is the Porsche Turbo... which doesn't race anywhere of consequence.

Also of note, the ACO regulations at the present time are not favourable for turbo engines in GT1.

It is a nice fantasy, but I'll be surprised to see one racing here. It would either have to be completely paid for out of Japan, or require a monumental shift in NNA (in terms of financing and thinking (ie. firmly don't believe in Halo Marketing, and no racing program makes financial sense for a low volume car on its' own merits)). Then the rules are simply stacked against it.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

My feeling if it DOES get the nood, then NISMO Japan and USA would work together, form a team with some Japanese and American employees and more than likely take somebody like Richard Lyons or Mike Krumm from the GT500 series to run the car.

Keeps cost down and in-house....

and they wont get their arzes trounced by real race teams.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Of course when I talked (and exchanged emails) with the Director of NISMO about their programs, Renault already had a controlling majority, at which point NNA refused to provide any budget. As you mention, their target (Nissan's in house target) is the Porsche Turbo... which doesn't race anywhere of consequence.

About which car did you specifically inquire back then? Because if it was the Skyline, then I'm still clinging to the hope of believing things might be different with the first global launch and distribution of the product.
Additionally, Porsche does not have to fight for mind share in the automotive performance area. Tell somebody to think of a fast road car and 40%-50% will say "Porsche". They already have the performance credibility which Nissan lacks in the western part of the world, and I hope Nissan attempts to remedy this with a racing project.

Also of note, the ACO regulations at the present time are not favourable for turbo engines in GT1.

Unless one makes them so. Lister's new GT1 was supposed to be a turbo. But even without turbos, they might make a naturally aspirated GT2, which I rather doubt though.

It is a nice fantasy, but I'll be surprised to see one racing here. It would either have to be completely paid for out of Japan, or require a monumental shift in NNA (in terms of financing and thinking (ie. firmly don't believe in Halo Marketing, and no racing program makes financial sense for a low volume car on its' own merits)). Then the rules are simply stacked against it.

Chances are low, but I think they've never been better. If we hoped in the past, we aren't going to stop now.

[Fogelhund]

The Skyline GT-R has been a topic of conversation yes. I agree with your every point about why they should race, and took that point in my conversations as well.