Big Wings for Saleens

[lj79]

Reported on planetlemans big wings back for Saleens.

Great news IMO as:

a) it will improve competitiveness

b) big wings look ace, small wings look crap

[paul-collins]

Only FIA-GT and ALMS, not ACO though.

[Bramzel]

Fantastic news, this should mean a big step forward for Konrad and GNM and should give us 2 extra frontrunners

[paul-collins]

Not ACO Compliant, Throw Them Out I Say!!!!!!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Fantastic news, this should mean a big step forward for Konrad and GNM and should give us 2 extra frontrunners

Didn't GNM rung with the big wing at Sebring.

And they qualified were exactly?

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by JAG

Didn't GNM rung with the big wing at Sebring.

And they qualified were exactly?

Ruberti and Camathias weren't there so I can't compare, sorry Was there a qualify btw? If I'm not mistaken they took some practicetimes as a starter because of severe rain.

I fully respect your opinion JAG but don't bring silly arguments like that.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Ruberti and Camathias weren't there so I can't compare, sorry Was there a qualify btw? If I'm not mistaken they took some practicetimes as a starter because of severe rain.

I fully respect your opinion JAG but don't bring silly arguments like that.

I just don't think the Saleens lack of pace can be explained away with a bigger wing.

IMO, the cars missed its window of opportunity.

If only ACEMCO ran the car a few years back (without restrictions).

[tblincoe]

yeah that really is silly JAG... this is fantastic for the FIA-GT as its a shame to totally take 4-5 cars out of contention. if Konrad and GNM can get their cars around the same pace as last year then i can't even imagine what the rest of the season will be like!!!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

yeah that really is silly JAG... this is fantastic for the FIA-GT as its a shame to totally take 4-5 cars out of contention. if Konrad and GNM can get their cars around the same pace as last year then i can't even imagine what the rest of the season will be like!!!

And you seriously believe that will be the case, just because of a slightly bigger wing.

What about Lister, the 575s.

Could it not be that the Saleens have simply been left behind?

[SALEEN S7R]

JAG, the Saleen S7R was extremely competitve last year on pace. A car does not go from being the quickest car on the track (barring the MC12's) to being a back marker in the GT1 class the year after, unless there is a reason for it.

The new regulations introduced for 2005 have effected all the cars, particulary the Saleen as it has a narrow rear windscreen it has a relativly narrow rear wing. With the full size rear wing it should make the cars competitve once again. IMO.

[19dodge]

this is very good news.. Konrad and maybe Nash will be able to win races now!! (and Acemco!)

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by JAG

And you seriously believe that will be the case, just because of a slightly bigger wing.

What about Lister, the 575s.

Could it not be that the Saleens have simply been left behind?

the Saleen was faster than the 550 for the last 2 years and all of a sudden its not anywhere near competitive and MUCH slower than the 550... i think that the reason is very clear, ESP. when reading the comments of ALL of the S7-R team owners. i don't think that ACEMCO, Konrad, and Graham Nash are all just talking out of their *sses when they say that the S7-R is now dangerously unstable in its current form... i mean ACEMCO pulled out of LM the new package was so bad!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

the Saleen was faster than the 550 for the last 2 years and all of a sudden its not anywhere near competitive and MUCH slower than the 550... i think that the reason is very clear, ESP. when reading the comments of ALL of the S7-R team owners. i don't think that ACEMCO, Konrad, and Graham Nash are all just talking out of their *sses when they say that the S7-R is now dangerously unstable in its current form... i mean ACEMCO pulled out of LM the new package was so bad!

Don't want to offend anyone but I think thats compelete and utter bullsh@t.

The 550 has been a consistent pace setter, the Saleen has shown flashes of speed, usually when it has had a top quality driver behind the wheel pushing like hell.

The Maserati has a tiny rear wing, the Vettes and Ferraris also have smaller wings.

The Vette wing actually creates more downforce than the old wing!

I'll bet £50 that the Saleens are no nearer the pace-setters than previously.

As I said previously many cars have dropped off the pace, not least the Lister. No extra restrictions, just the pace of development.

[Bramzel]

Lister lost it last year already, 575 never was a winner. On pure speed I indeed believe the Saleen is at least as fast as the 550, the problem lays in reliability and consistency.

We'll see it in Imola. Hopefully Konrad will be there again by then.

[19dodge]

Terry Borcheller does not get slower.
Johnny Mowelm does not get slower.
Paulo Ruberti does not get slower.
Walter Lechner does not get slower.
Uwe Alzen does not get slower.

those 5 guys are very agrressive drivers. they dont let up. Last year, the Saleen had 6 poles (out of 11 races) and 7 of the races, they had the fastest lap. they were constantly quick. the only races they were not #1 or #2 in the speedcharts was at Dubai and China.

And the Vette wasnt in the fia gt series last year, so how could you say it has a smaller rear wing? the only previous appearnce by a vette was at Spa, and thet team ran the car in G2.

Just say your a Saleen hater, and we will be done with the debate.

[19dodge]

i also would like to add something else:

in the Eurosport FIA GT preview video, Michael Bartels said that this year was a challenge. why? "because last year, the saleen was always fast, wherever it went". "The Maserati takes a lot of setup changes to get it perfect". im not using exact quotes here, but this is what he roughly said. i was shocked to hear it myself (that the maserati has to be dialed in at every round, and it takes time to get it up to speed)..

the point is that the Saleen has been fast, ever since they got into the FIA GT. Now, they are well off the pace, and the problem has been fixed, thanks to the SRO and FIA.

[lj79]

To pull out of Le Mans for this reason must require some serious foundation.

[SALEEN S7R]

Agreed, no team would take pulling out of Le Mans lightly. The fact that ACEMCO felt the need to do so on safety grounds due to the reduction in rear wing size IMO says a lot. With the full size wing back in FIA GT I am anticapating big gains in performance, perhaps not pole positions but certainly well up inside the top 6 on a regular basis.

[tblincoe]

thanks guys for making me feel sane... well JAG it seems as though you're the only one out their with your opinion, including those who actually run the cars. you could be right though and everyone is wrong... we shall see come Mid-Ohio and Imola.

[Bentley03]

There's more than a touch of irony in all this with Acemco's Le Mans withdrawal. Would they really have been there come June or was the wing a very convenient get out clause?

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

There's more than a touch of irony in all this with Acemco's Le Mans withdrawal. Would they really have been there come June or was the wing a very convenient get out clause?

I don't think that it was a get-out clause, except that the safety concerns could've been somewhat magnified. It was no secret that they were struggling with the car's pace given the new wing, and without an apprehension of competitiveness Le Mans represents a major investment in time and especially money (transport and logistics) with little hope of return.

JAG, if you haven't figured out why your argument makes no sense when this many people have demonstrated the reasoning for the wing's importance to you, I am rather worried.

[lj79]

If the pull out was based on performance then I would have expected the Saleens to have foregone the 2002 race too, when they were massively penalised for the race.

Further, whilst there is a performance issue with the Saleen think back to last year whereby 3 x 550's and 2 x Corvettes all had considerable non-routine delays and could have allowed a slower car to progress up the leader board and finish there. There is no way you can discount that this sort of thing wont happen in a 24 hour race again and again and again.

2 finish first, first you have to finish. So get a slower car to the line with only rotuine stops and last year there'd have been a real opportunity for success. There's always a chance in 24 hour race and i think that this, and the comments of the experts who run the cars, leads to me believe that safety is the reason for withdrawing.

[JAG]

Last year there were no Maseratis, no Astons, no Vettes.

Without these the Saleens would have been in the top six this year, maybe even top three at some races.

Its ludicrous to suggest the Saleen is going to go from backmarker to the front of the grid with a 10cm or so bigger rear wing.This logic would suggest that the Maserati would be the slowest GT1 and the Lamborghini the quickest.

Are we not forgetting that the S7 is a far better base car than the front engined competition, being mid engined, with long front and rear overhangs. Just maybe the Saleen has been at the front of the GT1 field because the base car was so good. Its only now that the development of the competition is highlighting the lack of development at Saleen.

Has the Saleen seen any significant development in the suspension dpt, traction control etc. All areas were the big budget factory teams can spend big bucks and gain a few tenths here and a few tenths there.

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by JAG

Last year there were no Maseratis, no Astons, no Vettes.

Without these the Saleens would have been in the top six this year, maybe even top three at some races.

Its ludicrous to suggest the Saleen is going to go from backmarker to the front of the grid with a 10cm or so bigger rear wing.This logic would suggest that the Maserati would be the slowest GT1 and the Lamborghini the quickest.

Are we not forgetting that the S7 is a far better base car than the front engined competition, being mid engined, with long front and rear overhangs. Just maybe the Saleen has been at the front of the GT1 field because the base car was so good. Its only now that the development of the competition is highlighting the lack of development at Saleen.

Has the Saleen seen any significant development in the suspension dpt, traction control etc. All areas were the big budget factory teams can spend big bucks and gain a few tenths here and a few tenths there.

you're missing the point here buddy... the 550s are JUST as competitive on outright pace (if not more-so) with the MC12, and last year the S7-R was faster than the 550 (or at least just as competitive, and that is in both ACO and FIA-GT form last year) so what does logic tell you? lets look at what i just wrote in more simple terms so its easier to understand:

2004 (normal wing regs for S7-R): S7-R > 550 (both ACO and FIA-GT regs formats, Vitaphone/Konrad was just as fast if not faster than Larbre in the LMES)

2005 (reduced wing regs for S7-R): S7-R < 550 (Saleen DRASTICALLY slower than previous years in relation to competition, teams claim that the cars are now dangerously unstable... ACEMCO WITHDRAWS from LM due to safety concerns with the new regs package)

there is no way to explain the sudden drop in ability of ALL Saleen teams other than the new regs... i dont see why this is so hard to understand. the 550 has not had any developments since last year but suddenly it is SUBSTANTIALLY quicker than the Saleen??? and yes the ACEMCO Saleen has had significant suspension and engine management upgrades to it this year, yet all of a sudden at Road Atlanta it drops totally off the pace (when the new wing reg. is enforced)

cmon, use your head!!!

[TheNewBob]

Has the 550 seen any development between the '04 and '05 seasons? If not, then it's good news for Saleen. However, without the required development work, I think that while Saleen may be a lot quicker than they have been so far this year (to be battling with Gruppe M in the early stages at Silverstone was jaw-droppingly awful), I don't see them being at the very sharp end of the grid.

That is unless all the other cars stop development too, which I think is more than a little unlikely.